BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
O have a 300g tank so I think I will be ok. I hope. I seen the other day how much sperm my urchin can put out. Sure did cloud the tank up. But my ATS will clean it.
How to breed clams....
- Thread starter lebowski
- Start date
OrionN
Moved on
All you need to do is to stress a mature clam and they will spawn. Plenty of us have clams spawn in our aquarium. Calms are hermaphrodites, they will produce both sperms and eggs. The problem with clams reproduction in aquarium is that clams have no mechanism to prevent polyspermia (more than one sperm fertilize an egg). If this happen whit it will do in aquarium. then it will not develop.
There is one thread on RC where a reefer got one Derasa from spawn event several years ago. This in the only clam reproduction in aquarium that I ever read about.
There is one thread on RC where a reefer got one Derasa from spawn event several years ago. This in the only clam reproduction in aquarium that I ever read about.
OrionN
Moved on
Here is a thread about one T. derassa that was the reproduction of a spawn of in a reefer's tank.
IMO, this really did happen, and not a hoax. I cam to this conclusion because:
1. the baby clam is really too small to be import to England (where this happened)
2. I know the OP and judge him to be trust worthy
It really too bad the way the thread turn out and it was closed. IMO, it is an interesting thread and deserved better than be close.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1723196&highlight=clam+reproduction
IMO, this really did happen, and not a hoax. I cam to this conclusion because:
1. the baby clam is really too small to be import to England (where this happened)
2. I know the OP and judge him to be trust worthy
It really too bad the way the thread turn out and it was closed. IMO, it is an interesting thread and deserved better than be close.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1723196&highlight=clam+reproduction
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
I agree, they were pretty harsh on him. They acted as if he should have been documenting something for a science exp. when it was a freak accident that it happened. I think I'll try to breed mine once i find out how old they are and get an idea on how i want to do it. I think in the home aquarium situation, you dont have to do it like the clam farms, cycling water, etc, etc.
But i think that if you can stress the clam to begin the process, you can isolate them to get the sperm, then do the same to get the eggs, then (if you dont have a microscope) estimate how many eggs there are (i think they are slightly visible if i remember correctly what i read) and then put a couple drops of sperm in there. Even if all the eggs dont get fertilized, hopefully it will decrease the amount of polyspermia that will happen.
I might get a microscope though since they can be rather cheap and try to make better estimates that way on how much sperm and egg content there is.
But first thing is first, age of clams. Because if i remember correctly (going off of several months ago of reading) They have to be 2 to develop sperm and 4 to develop eggs. I'll have to read that manual and see what it says tomorrow while im at work.
But i think that if you can stress the clam to begin the process, you can isolate them to get the sperm, then do the same to get the eggs, then (if you dont have a microscope) estimate how many eggs there are (i think they are slightly visible if i remember correctly what i read) and then put a couple drops of sperm in there. Even if all the eggs dont get fertilized, hopefully it will decrease the amount of polyspermia that will happen.
I might get a microscope though since they can be rather cheap and try to make better estimates that way on how much sperm and egg content there is.
But first thing is first, age of clams. Because if i remember correctly (going off of several months ago of reading) They have to be 2 to develop sperm and 4 to develop eggs. I'll have to read that manual and see what it says tomorrow while im at work.
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
replies like this are what baffle me.
"You would need access to open water, and tons of money to get started"
Thats like saying you need to do the same to even have fish in an aquarium. Who would have thought that we could stick them in a 24g aquarium.
"Yes there are male and female clams."
Clearly must not know anything about clams.
Not trying to start an argument, but lets think outside of the box. Just because someone does something a certain way doesnt mean thats the only way it works. Lets be a little more optimistic.
the clams are killed b/c they are the ones possessing the genetic characteristics the farmer wants to have continued--size for food or patterns for beauty, so that there's not just a wild chance of obtaining decent specimens
the thing is you are supposing it can be done w/out any consideration of anything else: why do it
risks to the tank inhabitants
success rate
your clams are much too immature
from what i see you do not have 2 clams of the same species, and didn't even know what species you did have
you like analogies, so here's a relevant one: any 2 dogs can mate and most offspring will be awful-looking. clams to sell for their looks are selected b/c of the parents beauty. you have no such selectivity available. if you were to get any larvae to survive, which is extremely unlikely, chances are you'd have mutts
thinking outside the box also assumes that the box is understood.
not trying to start an argument
the thing is you are supposing it can be done w/out any consideration of anything else: why do it
risks to the tank inhabitants
success rate
your clams are much too immature
from what i see you do not have 2 clams of the same species, and didn't even know what species you did have
you like analogies, so here's a relevant one: any 2 dogs can mate and most offspring will be awful-looking. clams to sell for their looks are selected b/c of the parents beauty. you have no such selectivity available. if you were to get any larvae to survive, which is extremely unlikely, chances are you'd have mutts
thinking outside the box also assumes that the box is understood.
not trying to start an argument
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
I have 2 derasa clams, only one shown in the picture, part of the other is on the far right of the picture. I do feel that they are too yound as they are only 3-4" wide. I'm not saying it can be done without consideration of anything. (people make too many assumptions, polute the forums, just to complicate things because they cant wrap their minds around possabilites of making something happen). But thats what defines a lot of people, thats why Bill Gates, Hue Heff, Michael Dell, etc made it big while the rest of us sit back at out 9-5 jobs. They took the time to make it a reality rather than sit back and not attempt it just because someone who has no idea (not tried it) of what they are fully talking about.
If you have done experiments, know of others who have done it that i can read about, please do share. Otherwise we are wasting eachothers time with posting back and forth.
Maybe thats the problem with topics like this. Someone brings up an idea and people just assume that the person is crazy and that it should be done at the flip of a switch otherwise it cant be done. And just because someone says that it cant be done because of their misunderstanding it must be a golden rule because user X said so. When you rear Clown fish, do you not have to meet certain criteria for it to happen? This is no different.
I'm not saying that you just throw some clams in a tank, slap one around to stress it, and bam, 100 babies should pop out. Sure, it will take some playing with, some extra equipment (tubs, tanks, lights, etc), but i dont think that constitutes it as not being possible at home. But it doesnt make any sense that you would have to have a HUGE farm to raise them. Farms are for mass scale, doing at home could offer a couple spawns every so often to either sell, give to friends/family, or whatever.
"so that there's not just a wild chance of obtaining decent specimens"
From what i have read, there hasnt been any determination on what exactly makes the designs on the clams. I suspect its genetic, but would be interesting to know if anyone is out there genetically isolating strands of clams. I'm sure it has to be done by now.
If you have done experiments, know of others who have done it that i can read about, please do share. Otherwise we are wasting eachothers time with posting back and forth.
Maybe thats the problem with topics like this. Someone brings up an idea and people just assume that the person is crazy and that it should be done at the flip of a switch otherwise it cant be done. And just because someone says that it cant be done because of their misunderstanding it must be a golden rule because user X said so. When you rear Clown fish, do you not have to meet certain criteria for it to happen? This is no different.
I'm not saying that you just throw some clams in a tank, slap one around to stress it, and bam, 100 babies should pop out. Sure, it will take some playing with, some extra equipment (tubs, tanks, lights, etc), but i dont think that constitutes it as not being possible at home. But it doesnt make any sense that you would have to have a HUGE farm to raise them. Farms are for mass scale, doing at home could offer a couple spawns every so often to either sell, give to friends/family, or whatever.
"so that there's not just a wild chance of obtaining decent specimens"
From what i have read, there hasnt been any determination on what exactly makes the designs on the clams. I suspect its genetic, but would be interesting to know if anyone is out there genetically isolating strands of clams. I'm sure it has to be done by now.
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BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
here is a guy who claims that he has seen it happen in a 200g tank (I have a 300g).
http://www.reefcentral.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1330598
JaredWaits
"Yeah, where some are wild and some are maricultured meaning they are farmed in the ocean. Its a type of aquaculture.
But I have to disagree with skinz78, as I have seen them spawn in an aquarium with my own two eyes...but the chances of their gametes actually producing offspring that lives and grows up to be an adult is slim...although possible.
Oh if your wondering what size the aquarium was it was a 200 gallon with a large foot print. "
http://www.reefcentral.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1330598
JaredWaits
"Yeah, where some are wild and some are maricultured meaning they are farmed in the ocean. Its a type of aquaculture.
But I have to disagree with skinz78, as I have seen them spawn in an aquarium with my own two eyes...but the chances of their gametes actually producing offspring that lives and grows up to be an adult is slim...although possible.
Oh if your wondering what size the aquarium was it was a 200 gallon with a large foot print. "
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
here is another claiming it to have been done in a lab
http://************.com/2008/04/30/reef-ramblings-clamming-around-part-ii-spawning-tridacnids/
http://************.com/2008/04/30/reef-ramblings-clamming-around-part-ii-spawning-tridacnids/
OrionN
Moved on
The problem with raising clams in an aquarium are:
1. Get fertilized eggs. Really need to aspirate a small amount of eggs and sperms and really dilute it out to get a few fertilized eggs
2. Get to larvae to settle. I don't think it is hard or they need any special clue
3. Get the baby clams to obtain zooxanthellae. This is difficult. In the clam farms they ground up a mature clam in a blender and feed it to the larvae.
4. Good stable condition and protect the clams from predators. I am sure a lot of the crustaceans in the tank will find the baby clam tasty. They are too small to survive attack from these tiny crustaceans attack.
1. Get fertilized eggs. Really need to aspirate a small amount of eggs and sperms and really dilute it out to get a few fertilized eggs
2. Get to larvae to settle. I don't think it is hard or they need any special clue
3. Get the baby clams to obtain zooxanthellae. This is difficult. In the clam farms they ground up a mature clam in a blender and feed it to the larvae.
4. Good stable condition and protect the clams from predators. I am sure a lot of the crustaceans in the tank will find the baby clam tasty. They are too small to survive attack from these tiny crustaceans attack.
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
"too small to survive attack from these tiny crustaceans attack"
Ha, yeah, i' sure they are. It would only make sense that you would not have them in your main tank for the first week or two if you decided to breed them, otherwise survival of the fittest would take course and the odds would def be in the other players court.
The part I find toubling is having to destroy/cut another clam to get the Zoo to take hold of the babies. You would think that if you had 2-5 clams in your water that there would be enough floating around. I could see why farms would need to do it. They are onstantly bringing in new water (possibly far from clam sites that would poses greater amounts???). But if one has to be sacraficed for the greater good of the offspring, then i guess it has to be done. Though i wonder if the confinements of a home tank "could" posess enough free floating Zoo.
I have a refuge under my tank, i was thinking that if i could get big enough clams (or maybe the ones i have are old enough) to breed, then i could stick the hachlings down there on day 4 according to the clam manual. There is about 500 gph flow through there, but its so dispursed that its pretty calm about 3/4ths the way down. So they would be safe from preditors until they are a month old and could possible defend themselves.
Ha, yeah, i' sure they are. It would only make sense that you would not have them in your main tank for the first week or two if you decided to breed them, otherwise survival of the fittest would take course and the odds would def be in the other players court.
The part I find toubling is having to destroy/cut another clam to get the Zoo to take hold of the babies. You would think that if you had 2-5 clams in your water that there would be enough floating around. I could see why farms would need to do it. They are onstantly bringing in new water (possibly far from clam sites that would poses greater amounts???). But if one has to be sacraficed for the greater good of the offspring, then i guess it has to be done. Though i wonder if the confinements of a home tank "could" posess enough free floating Zoo.
I have a refuge under my tank, i was thinking that if i could get big enough clams (or maybe the ones i have are old enough) to breed, then i could stick the hachlings down there on day 4 according to the clam manual. There is about 500 gph flow through there, but its so dispursed that its pretty calm about 3/4ths the way down. So they would be safe from preditors until they are a month old and could possible defend themselves.
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
Yeah but how much of a threat are they once the clam is lets say a year old? Cant really get around not having hermits in your tank. I dont feed live Mysis, so thats not an issue in my tank. Pods i could see being an infestation problem but i do have a Mandarin Goby in there that eat those so their population is kept pretty under control i would think... But yeah, all concerns to deal with, esp at such a young age, Maybe isolation for a couple years would be best. Or maybe thats just being too overprotective.
OrionN
Moved on
All the Healthy tanks have pods and mysis. They come in with the LR. You can keep reef tank without hermits and ornamental shrimps. Many tank have crabs in them that come in with LR.
If you can get the through the first few months, I think they should be OK. IMO and observation Crocea spawns at about 2-3 inches. The younger ones only put out sperms and the larger one put out sperms first them after all the sperms are gone they stop for about 15 minutes then the eggs come out. Maxima start to spawn at about 4-5 inches. Just because they are big enough does not mean that will spawn. They have to be healthy enough and have enough calories to produce eggs and sperms.
The clam farm do biopsy of the clam to see the maturity of the gametes. Once they determine that the clams have mature eggs and sperm, they stressed the clam to induce spawn. One way they routinely use is to take the clam out of the water under the sun. I don't know how long but I am sure this depends on how big the clam is, A Derasa or Gigas will require longer and an Crocea I am not sure since Crocea are routinely exposed in low tide in nature.
FWIW, there are thousands of reefers who keep clams and there are countless spawn events in our tanks. No reefer have yet able to raise them other than that one accident in the thread I posed earlier. I am sure this is not because lack of trying. Some of us keep clams for 20+ years. I do not think you will be successful. This does not mean you should not try. I may eat my words in the next few months. Good luck. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
BTW, did you know that Holeinone used to import clams and sell them? While this does not mean he know about clams reproduction, but he does know how to keep these beautiful creatures
In out tank, often we hear clams spawn after water change or by shipping, or tank disaster etc....
If you can get the through the first few months, I think they should be OK. IMO and observation Crocea spawns at about 2-3 inches. The younger ones only put out sperms and the larger one put out sperms first them after all the sperms are gone they stop for about 15 minutes then the eggs come out. Maxima start to spawn at about 4-5 inches. Just because they are big enough does not mean that will spawn. They have to be healthy enough and have enough calories to produce eggs and sperms.
The clam farm do biopsy of the clam to see the maturity of the gametes. Once they determine that the clams have mature eggs and sperm, they stressed the clam to induce spawn. One way they routinely use is to take the clam out of the water under the sun. I don't know how long but I am sure this depends on how big the clam is, A Derasa or Gigas will require longer and an Crocea I am not sure since Crocea are routinely exposed in low tide in nature.
FWIW, there are thousands of reefers who keep clams and there are countless spawn events in our tanks. No reefer have yet able to raise them other than that one accident in the thread I posed earlier. I am sure this is not because lack of trying. Some of us keep clams for 20+ years. I do not think you will be successful. This does not mean you should not try. I may eat my words in the next few months. Good luck. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
BTW, did you know that Holeinone used to import clams and sell them? While this does not mean he know about clams reproduction, but he does know how to keep these beautiful creatures
In out tank, often we hear clams spawn after water change or by shipping, or tank disaster etc....
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
No, i didnt know thats what he did. But it seems pretty pestamistic to just baintly say "It cant be done" without any provided basis.
Taking care of/raising are differnet than getting them to breed. I can take care of a Clown fish, doesnt mean i kno whow to make them breed. I think there is a way, a convenient way that it could be done at home. Practicle, maybe not in many eyes, but doable on a small scale. And if the "Clam Manual" along with the other sited i have read are correct about how to do it, then it shouldnt be all that complicated. Having the space and money to buy the equipment for small scale rearing seem to be one of 3 obsticles. The other two are fertilization and getting them their Zoo.
Taking care of/raising are differnet than getting them to breed. I can take care of a Clown fish, doesnt mean i kno whow to make them breed. I think there is a way, a convenient way that it could be done at home. Practicle, maybe not in many eyes, but doable on a small scale. And if the "Clam Manual" along with the other sited i have read are correct about how to do it, then it shouldnt be all that complicated. Having the space and money to buy the equipment for small scale rearing seem to be one of 3 obsticles. The other two are fertilization and getting them their Zoo.
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
So i was just talking to my wife. She mesured the clam and said it was a little over 3 inches long. Without knowing for sure how old it is, we are going to do a little test. I'm 90% sure it will fail, but thats why it is a test. From all that i could find there is no way of knowing how old it is by looking at it and the store i bought it off of was of no help either, i have decided to do a stress test to see what it can secrete, if i can get it to at all. It appears to be healthy as you can see from the pictures. Full of color, white shell around the top, and stays wide open all day long. Granted i have only had this Clam for a couple days, but it seems that it was well taken care of at the store (they had it for around a month or two so they say). I'll do a heat stress test as it seems to be the least harmful.
If by an act of god i do get eggs, i'll hve two 5gal buckets filled with water from my DT to catch sperm in one, and a majority of the eggs in the other. I will then have to guestimate things from there as far as portions go for the primordial soup. I'll keep you updated on the results of this "Age Test".
From my understanding, Clams are capable of producing eggs around 3-4yrs old.
If by an act of god i do get eggs, i'll hve two 5gal buckets filled with water from my DT to catch sperm in one, and a majority of the eggs in the other. I will then have to guestimate things from there as far as portions go for the primordial soup. I'll keep you updated on the results of this "Age Test".
From my understanding, Clams are capable of producing eggs around 3-4yrs old.
OrionN
Moved on
I think it is a bad idea. Show us a picture of the clam and I can tell you if it is mature enough at 3 inches. About the only clam that is old enough at 3 inches is Crocea. The one clam you have that I seen is a Derasa which is very young at 3 inches.
If you stress the clam, you may end up with a dead clam.
If you stress the clam, you may end up with a dead clam.
I have spawned and raised Tridacna clams in the late 1990's. It will be very difficult to impossible for a hobbyist to do it in a landlocked house. As for getting Derasa to spawn we used 10 to 12 inch clams. In theory it should be possible at 6 inches but the stress would generally kill a 6 inch derasa and the eggs from a 6 incher would not be very viable in my opinion. I will attach a few photos of some breeder derasa clams. Crocea will spawn consistently at 4 inches and can supply good sperm at 3 inches however they are much more difficult to raise.
Dave
Dave
Attachments
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
Thanks for the picture and some insite. I guess i'll just have to wait, OR go buy some bigger ones which sounds better to me. I think thats what i'll do this weekend.
I wont test out my Derasa clams and wait. here is an image of the biggest one that i currently have. Last thing i want to do is harm these guys.
<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/clam1.jpg" width="600" height="450">
As we can see, my wifes measuring was a little off which led me to believe there might be a possibility that it could be done so early. With them being so small, i dont think that i would even attempt it if no one said anything.
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