How to get tang to act normal?

[medic29]

I appreciate all of the opinions posted. I am still looking for supporting data and/or scientific research information regarding this subject, but will look to various educational instituations for this.

FYI, both tangs are just fine now. The new tang is doing just fine in the other tank thanks to suggestions found locally. The other....is acting normally as well. The tanks they are in are temporary tanks until the larger tank build is complete.

It has been interesting to read all of the posts of folks personal opinions, but when looked at logically many don't make sense, but I'm sure those that voiced them would argue it to death.

In regards to the original post, I was wondering how to help the newer fish act normal, this question wasn't every really answered, but a lot of other information was shared. What I learned, again locally, the new fish was acting normally. It is now swimming around, eating, and exploring its new environment.

Mods you may close this thread if you wish.

 

[medic29]

This guy asks how to get his tang to act normal. So everyone tells him to put them in a bigger tank, he scoffs at the idea of doing that. So just let him be. His tangs will just continue to act weird and kill eachother

I also asked to define what is meant by bigger. Please try to think through your answers and pertain them to the question(s). I'm not scoffing at all. I asked what bigger meant, volume or length or both. So far I've heard minimum 6 feet in length...I think they are saying this for adult sized fish. Okay that is a start. What I am beginning to think is no one really knows, they are going by what they feel makes sense to them, but aren't really sure themselves.

 

[jaa1456]

I appreciate all of the opinions posted. I am still looking for supporting data and/or scientific research information regarding this subject, but will look to various educational instituations for this.

FYI, both tangs are just fine now. The new tang is doing just fine in the other tank thanks to suggestions found locally. The other....is acting normally as well. The tanks they are in are temporary tanks until the larger tank build is complete.

It has been interesting to read all of the posts of folks personal opinions, but when looked at logically many don't make sense, but I'm sure those that voiced them would argue it to death.

In regards to the original post, I was wondering how to help the newer fish act normal, this question wasn't every really answered, but a lot of other information was shared. What I learned, again locally, the new fish was acting normally. It is now swimming around, eating, and exploring its new environment.

Mods you may close this thread if you wish.

I actually did anwer this question for you, Maybe you didn't take the time to read the thread, Which is why I know understand why you had to ask this question in the first place. Do yourself a favor and read up on whatever you are gonna do, and do not read off of sites on the internet, as in sites that say do this or else. But you also do learn from mistakes as others have on here. Including these tang police and also the guy from florida as seeing they are pros because he lives close to the reefs(HAHAH). I live on the coast but yet I'm no pro.

 

[Rizup]

It has been interesting to read all of the posts of folks personal opinions, but when looked at logically many don't make sense, but I'm sure those that voiced them would argue it to death.

Just curious - what personal opinions that were posted don't make sense to you when looked at logically? It seems to me that everyone that has posted here pretty much agrees and are on the same page. I guess we could all be wrong though

 

[kirkaz]

I couldn't find it, but Scott Michael has a list of MINIMUM tank size for all Tangs. I have seen it copy and pasted here from his book, but I couldn't find it on google. If you get to a Barnes and Noble, check that book out.

 

[snorvich]

While I feel these are bare minimums, they are for single fish:

1. Acanthurus achilles, Achilles Surgeonfish, 100 gal (380l).
2. Acanthurus coeruleus, Atlantic Blue Tang, 75 gal (285l).
3. Acanthurus japonicus, Powder Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
4. Acanthurus leucosternon, Powder Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
5. Acanthurus lineatus, Lined or Clown Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
6. Acanthurus nigricans, Whitecheek Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
7. Acanthurus olivaceus, Orangeshoulder Surgeonfish, 135 gal (510l).
8. Acanthurus pyroferus, Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
9. Acanthurus sohal, Sohal Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
10. Acanthurus tristegus, Convict Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
11. Acanthurus tristis, Indian Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
12. Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis, Chevron Tang, 100 gal (380l).
13. Ctenochaetus strigosus, Kole's Tang, 75 gal (285l).
14. Naso brevirostris, Spotted Unicornfish, 180 gal (685l).
15. Naso lituratus, Orangespine Unicornfish or Naso Tang, 135 gal (510l).
16. Naso unicornis, Bluespine Unicornfish, 200 gal (760l).
17. Paracanthurus hepatus, Pacific Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
18. Zebrasoma desjardinii, Indian Ocean or Red Sea Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
19. Zebrasoma flavescens, Yellow Tang, 75 gal (285l).
20. Zebrasoma scopas, Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
21. Zebrasoma veliferum, Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
22. Zebrasoma xanthurum, Purple Tang, 100 gal (380l).

I also feel some of these are a bit optimistic, at least based on my personal experience. For example, I feel that a Naso needs a minimum of an 8 foot tank, and I had to remove a Sohal from a 350 gallon tank because it became progressively more aggressive.
But again, these are Scott Michael's opinions and any "scientific research" is also just an opinion, albeit an educated one. Of course anyone can do what they want, and if money is no object, they can simply continue doing so. And from one more perspective, I have spent almost 3000 hours under water observing fish in their natural habitat.

 

[kirkaz]

Thanks Steve...And I agree, Scott for sure was saying MINIMUM, as in anything less is completely inappropriate.

 

[Levito]

I find it funny that the OP asks for "ideas" about what the problem is with his tang. Then when people give him ideas (i.e way too small of a tank for 1, let alone 2 tangs), he asks for scientific information. You're really coming onto this board asking for scientific evidence? Do people need to cite references to make you happy?
This is ridiculous. People have given all the information this guy needs- The tank is too small.
I would suggest people not waste their time anymore giving advice to people that have no interest in listening to it. Apparently he was looking for someone to provide a bit of magic... some special ointment for your small tank where fish ignore their natural instincts and forget that they're territorial by nature.

 

[bmxman37]

think about it if everyone has the same/opposite opinion as you your probably wrong.... just get a bigger tank it will look better anyway

 

[revaltion131]

The major issue here is obviously welfare. I'm a Spartan so I can only go so far as to comment on work done by MSU and the other ag-centered B10 schools but if Illinois is anything like the rest of us, you should easily be able to find information on the research of animal welfare through the school. Because animals can't talk to us, we have to rely on 'signs' from them, such as their overall health, apparent happiness, etc, to judge what is 'best' for them in a captive environment. While we try to remain as objective as possible, it is, in the end, opinions and what, based on the indicators we outline, we feel is the most appropriate or best compromise for the animal in question. Most of my knowledge of actual welfare research comes from an equine background but most of the principles can be applied to a wide variety of species.

Our thoughts and opinions on appropriate tank sizes, living environments, and so forth are based on our personal experience and the experiences of others. Marine research is obviously not wasting money on determining the optimum tank size for captive specimens. They have bigger issues at hand so you're not going to find data from research conducted to determine these things. Fish, in general, should be in tanks most appropriately suited to their swimming habits and needs. As has been stated several times, tangs are fish that can go shooting across the tank and even a smaller one, in the 3-4" range, can go flying across 6' in no time. In this sense, best size, first length then width and height, is determined through observation of the fish's swimming habits. Other factors, such as easily falling ill in an environment that's too small, also help to evaluate whether or not the situation is right for that fish. Also, as pointed out in the post by Snorvich above, a general rule with fish is that as the tank size shrinks, their level of aggression increases.

If you are so dead-set on finding 'scientific data' then I wish you luck. If you're willing to go based more on the knowledge learned through experience by skilled reefers then you will be better off. Either way, I highly recommend using WetWebMedia.com to do a majority of your research on appropriate sizes and living situations for your animals. Be sure to read the FAQs thoroughly as well as the articles. The staff can contradict themselves from time to time so it is important to cover all of the angles in your research. A last note on them is that they tend to be conservative but their interest is in the well-being of the animal.

As a side note, your question as to whether or not the tang was acting normally and how to help him/her was answered here at least once. The question is also posed to you, as a caring reefer: why are you buying fish and putting them in a smaller environment if you have a larger, more appropriately-sized build already in the works?

 

[badazztealcobra]

While I feel these are bare minimums, they are for single fish:

1. Acanthurus achilles, Achilles Surgeonfish, 100 gal (380l).
2. Acanthurus coeruleus, Atlantic Blue Tang, 75 gal (285l).
3. Acanthurus japonicus, Powder Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
4. Acanthurus leucosternon, Powder Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
5. Acanthurus lineatus, Lined or Clown Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
6. Acanthurus nigricans, Whitecheek Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
7. Acanthurus olivaceus, Orangeshoulder Surgeonfish, 135 gal (510l).
8. Acanthurus pyroferus, Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
9. Acanthurus sohal, Sohal Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
10. Acanthurus tristegus, Convict Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
11. Acanthurus tristis, Indian Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
12. Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis, Chevron Tang, 100 gal (380l).
13. Ctenochaetus strigosus, Kole's Tang, 75 gal (285l).
14. Naso brevirostris, Spotted Unicornfish, 180 gal (685l).
15. Naso lituratus, Orangespine Unicornfish or Naso Tang, 135 gal (510l).
16. Naso unicornis, Bluespine Unicornfish, 200 gal (760l).
17. Paracanthurus hepatus, Pacific Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
18. Zebrasoma desjardinii, Indian Ocean or Red Sea Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
19. Zebrasoma flavescens, Yellow Tang, 75 gal (285l).
20. Zebrasoma scopas, Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
21. Zebrasoma veliferum, Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
22. Zebrasoma xanthurum, Purple Tang, 100 gal (380l).

I also feel some of these are a bit optimistic, at least based on my personal experience. For example, I feel that a Naso needs a minimum of an 8 foot tank, and I had to remove a Sohal from a 350 gallon tank because it became progressively more aggressive.
But again, these are Scott Michael's opinions and any "scientific research" is also just an opinion, albeit an educated one. Of course anyone can do what they want, and if money is no object, they can simply continue doing so. And from one more perspective, I have spent almost 3000 hours under water observing fish in their natural habitat.

This isn't sufficient enough Steve. :lolspin:

The biggest differences IMO in that list are the Acanthurus Tangs, I think they all need to be in a 6' tank at a minimum, but thats just me. All of the Acanthurus Ive seen and watch swim full speed almost non-stop.

I also agree that the Sohal sizing is WAY off, Ive seen them get ridiculously territorial in huge tanks, I could never see one being a model citizen for it's entire time in a 180g.

 

[anbosu]

I think the mimic tangs and convict tangs do better in smaller tanks (<125 gallons) than the rest of the Acanthurus tangs. Most though, I agree, require 6'+ aquariums.

 

[SlowCobra]

And as I stated earlier, another person who does a **** poor job keeping fish and asks for help only to tell us to basically pound sand, none of us know what we are talking about.

 

[SlowCobra]

I mentioned keeping it civil, because quite often people like yourself have failed to do their research then when offering advice on what not to do the offender stands by their actions attempting to justify it 6 ways from sunday. Ok with that said I will move on to what you need to know.

....

Oh hey how about that! When I actually took the time to explain it, I pre-faced it with exactly what the OP was going to do. I must be psychic.

 

[jaa1456]

This thread is still alive??

 

[lars on live]

I really don't understand why people don't try to understand fish and their needs before they get them. If the goal is to have a healthy reef shouldn't effort be put into not only building the best system you can, but also selecting animals that could survive comfortably in that system. Why try to force something that has been seen time and time again to end poorly. Sure you might beat the odds, but even if you do it's not a good environment for the fish to display natural behavior.

 

[EasyEd77]

I appreciate all of the opinions posted. I am still looking for supporting data and/or scientific research information regarding this subject, but will look to various educational instituations for this.

FYI, both tangs are just fine now. The new tang is doing just fine in the other tank thanks to suggestions found locally. The other....is acting normally as well. The tanks they are in are temporary tanks until the larger tank build is complete.

It has been interesting to read all of the posts of folks personal opinions, but when looked at logically many don't make sense, but I'm sure those that voiced them would argue it to death.

In regards to the original post, I was wondering how to help the newer fish act normal, this question wasn't every really answered, but a lot of other information was shared. What I learned, again locally, the new fish was acting normally. It is now swimming around, eating, and exploring its new environment.

Mods you may close this thread if you wish.

The scientific research that you are asking for is in front of your face. Consider yourself a scientist. You are studying the behavior of fish in a less than ideal environment and they are not acting normal.

 

[snorvich]

This isn't sufficient enough Steve. :lolspin:

The biggest differences IMO in that list are the Acanthurus Tangs, I think they all need to be in a 6' tank at a minimum, but thats just me. All of the Acanthurus Ive seen and watch swim full speed almost non-stop.

I also agree that the Sohal sizing is WAY off, Ive seen them get ridiculously territorial in huge tanks, I could never see one being a model citizen for it's entire time in a 180g.

Actually, I was only providing what Scott Michael said. I was NOT advocating them, in fact I put in a disclaimer. In any case, I am an advocate of tank length rather than gallonage. For any Acanthurus, I think that the minimum is six feet with eight feet being preferable. :fun2:

 

[snorvich]

Oh hey how about that! When I actually took the time to explain it, I pre-faced it with exactly what the OP was going to do. I must be psychic.

Well, la dee dah, if you are psychic, I have some questions for you!! :bounce2:

 

[velvetelvis]

I find it funny that the OP asks for "ideas" about what the problem is with his tang. Then when people give him ideas (i.e way too small of a tank for 1, let alone 2 tangs), he asks for scientific information. You're really coming onto this board asking for scientific evidence? Do people need to cite references to make you happy?
This is ridiculous. People have given all the information this guy needs- The tank is too small.
I would suggest people not waste their time anymore giving advice to people that have no interest in listening to it. Apparently he was looking for someone to provide a bit of magic... some special ointment for your small tank where fish ignore their natural instincts and forget that they're territorial by nature.

Agreed...I think the "opinions" not backed by "scientific data" are pretty much going to be anything that doesn't confirm the OP's preferences.