How to get tang to act normal?

[Rizup]

Okay, let me first say, if you are interested in giving advice or constructive criticism I welcome it; if all you're interested in is voicing your opinion and be critical, due us both a favor and keep it to yourself...because it will be ignored Alsso, don't be surprised if you are stating something and I ask for a reference. I am an educated professional and for the most part don't just take someone's word as the law, especially in this hobby. I've heard folks claim things are black and white on here and later learned, partly from experience and the other from research, that it isn't usually the case, there is a lot of grey area.

Now I've heard tangs and other sturgeon fish need to be in large tanks? I'm curious what the definition of a large tank is for this particular instance? Are we talking water volume? Or talking length of tank?

Then there is the other part of it, which is proportional to the size of the fish. A juvenile fish which is 20% of its adult size shouldn't need a tank the size you would use for it when it is full (100%) grown...either in length or water volume.

First thing I am going to ask is did you do any research before purchasing these fish? If not, then I would suggest to research your purchases and try not to buy just on impulse. As you can see, impulse buying can lead to losing fish which is awful for the fish that gets bullied to death but you are losing money in the process as well. Do yourself a favor and research before you buy. People are on here to help you first and foremost, but you have to be willing to take criticism as well. We don't like to see animals put in harms way or in an environment that isn't suitable for them, whether it be long term or not

The reasons tangs need more space than some other fish is due to their nature of constantly moving around and grazing all day long. While a juvenile fish may be much smaller than an adult, it doesn't necessarily mean that it can thrive in a substantially smaller tank. A smaller tang is still going to have habits that are very similar to a larger tang and that requires plenty of swimming room. Of course they can get by in a smaller tank, but might not thrive like they would with more room.

I don't think you mentioned, but what size tank are these tangs in? In my opinion, most tangs should be in at least a 6 foot long tank. Some tangs will certainly benefit from more room than that.

 

[reeftrinh]

i once had a TEMPORARY 40 breeder that i had set up while i put together my 125. it had 1 yellow tang, 1 blue tang, and sailfin. they were all tank mates at one time and were model citizens during their stay in the breeder. they were however relatively the same size. i think you would have had less problems and criticism if you bought a similar size tang (i'm not saying its a good practice). darwin wins here, survival of the fittest and the larger sailfin will dominate a small juvie 10 out of 10 times. this will be the case in smaller crowded tanks 100% of the time.

i also think to answer your question, the tang was acting normal. they were being territorial and using their aggression to defend their territory.

 

[badazztealcobra]

My new tank is 90g which should be fine for most zebramosa tangs, but I STILL won't put one in there because it is a 36" long 90g tank.

The recommendations by stores are for the size fish they sell. The "large" for a Sailfin tang is 3.5" and up, which is "large" at all. I had a Purple and a Powder Blue in my 180g and I felt like they STILL could've used more room. You have a tang with a semi-aggressive to sometimes aggressive temperment, in a tank a third the size it should be in, and wonder why it attacked another tang being introduced later ?!?!? Please do more research before just tossing fish into your tank, those guidelines are there for the well being of the fish.....

Your tang WAS acting normal from being in such a small tank, and you probably lost another fish because of it. I'm guessing any other fish you try to introduce will suffer the same fate as well.

 

[DgenR8]

[moved]......

 

[SlowCobra]

If you have been in the hobby since the 80's, you have seen a lot of changes I'm sure. Things they said couldn't be done back then, things that were said to be impossible, we are doing today. I have many friends who have also been in the hobby, as well as the LFS business, and those who are doing Marine research for the University of Illinois as well. I'm hoping I haven't failed in my research, and in asking questions and requesting the supporting data I am continuing it.

Please explain your thoughts. Now you mentioned about trying to keep it civil...if this is truly the case then your beliefs may be more based on emotions and opinion rather than fact. I am not trying to sarcastic or anything. I am honestly trying to learn and gain information which is based on truth and fact, not on emotion or personal opinion.

We attempt to create our own marine environment for the animals we keep, but it pales in comparision to what these animals are used to in the wild.

I mentioned keeping it civil, because quite often people like yourself have failed to do their research then when offering advice on what not to do the offender stands by their actions attempting to justify it 6 ways from sunday. Ok with that said I will move on to what you need to know.

Yes things have changed drastically in this hobby. I had gotten out for a while because back in the day it was EXTREMELY difficult to keep fish long term. Resources were not available like they are now to research things and the cost of doing things was much more expensive due to having to provide a never ending stream of maintenance.

As for tangs and the proper tank size, a tang is a tang regardless of its size. They require a lot of room, even the smallest of tangs. They are grazers and essentially speed swimmers, they often have the need to accelerate quickly for whatever reason. Many people fail to realize that while their tank may be X width or gallons, add all of the obstacles in the tank such as live rock, other fish, power heads, etc and the swimming space keeps getting smaller and smaller.

The minimum tank size for even the smallest of tangs, if you want them to do more than just survive, should be a 4 foot 75 gal tank, and that is for the Ctenochaetus species. Many fish stores can't say "Hey that tang needs this size tank or else" if they want to stay in business. Honestly it is up to the consumer to do their homework.

You are a member of RC so really there is no excuse for pleading ignorance. This place, as well as the numerous other boards, are chock full of people willing to help. I know the argument then comes that no matter what the fish is still in a small space compared to the ocean yada yada yada. As with any pet, a responsible owner does their best to provide them with the optimum conditions, despite their captivity.

While it is difficult at best to compare humans to fish if you truly care about your livestock then you need to think about their conditions. As someone that has a huge world to explore unimpeded, if you had to be stuck in lockup would you prefer a 4x4 cell or a 12x12 cell? How about that 4x4 with a roommate(s)? Would you become pretty hostile about your space?

That is exactly what happens when we stick fish in too small of a space. You also have a species, that as mentioned, doesn't always have the best temper to begin with.

Ok I am done babbling, take it for what you will. In the end I find that more often than not on here giving advice to people that have already over-stocked their tanks does nothing but waste database space.

 

[revaltion131]

One thing that hasn't been covered is something you should have found during your research. Small tangs (<2.5" give or take) do horribly. They are super susceptible to illnesses and it should also follow that increased stress will cause them more issues than it would if they were larger, older fish. It sounds like the tang in question may be as little as 1" in length. Put that in with a larger sailfin (how large and long established in the current system?) and that multiplies the risks for the small tang.

The way the small tang is acting now is normal for a stressed and/or ill fish. Let the guy be and just monitor him. Stop messing around with the tank he's in and try to provide a stable, calm, and quiet environment.

 

[jjjimmy]

Let me first say that I have no data to back up my thoughts, just common sense from my point of view.

All tangs are territorial fish. Now a territorial being is territorial within a certain space. A general rule of thumb that I went by is that any fish over 3" - 4" needs a tank of at least 6 foot length, tang or not. Smaller fish including tangs can be temporarily kept in smaller tanks (the size should be left up to the hobbiest) until they reach such size.

Tangs are aggressively territorial, so by adding another (1) tang to a smaller tank was easier for the dominant fish to know who to go after and harmfull to the less dominant fish.

I know that I am going to get hammered on this one, but if you had added (2) very small tanks to your tank you more than likely would not have has as bad of a reaction from the incumbant fish. He/she wouls not have known which to pick on, so there would have been a "confusion time" for the other tanks to settle in.

I will end with saying that in anything less than a 10' tank, tangs should always be kept in odd numbers.

Once again these are just my feelings and beliefs that I have no data to support but has always worked well for me.

 

[niles1967]

Who in this hobby for such a suppossedly long period of time would even try this, or worse, put a new fish into his display without proper QT. There is little chance of this working out. Please put your personal anger aside and separate the fish. Territoriality is not a personality flaw, it is natural instinct. Get a bigger tank.

 

[jaa1456]

Here are my .02 cents after being in the hobby for 20 years, 16 keeping reefs. I agrees that smaller tangs are more fragile, with disease and care needed. The blue tang you have in the seperate tank would do better with fish in there with it. Just because it is hiding does not mean it will die. Secondly I always have and still do keep smaller tangs in smaller tanks. Not that this will be their permanent home, but to make sure they are healthy and eating before they go into a DT. Now by smaller tank and tang I mean 30 gallons for a 1-2" tang. After they are healthy and ready to go(which could take 6 months) they go into a DT. I have never kept a tang in any thing smaller than a 125(6' length) as its permanent home. In my 265 I never had more than 3 tangs. But a 40 seems to small for a sailfin and a hippo together for long term. And for the one post I saw on here I have never seen a 3" sailfin marked as a large fish.

 

[TampaReefer79]

I'm amazed...

That I wasn't around today to get to this thread faster! lol I also am a proud member of the tang police and only want to say the following:

You didn't QT the tang and added him straight to a display.

You then netted the tang which is a no-no.

You get your info from folks doing marine research in Illinois.

 

[SlowCobra]

I'm amazed...

That I wasn't around today to get to this thread faster! lol I also am a proud member of the tang police and only want to say the following:

You didn't QT the tang and added him straight to a display.

You then netted the tang which is a no-no.

You get your info from folks doing marine research in Illinois.

Just because we are from Illinois does not mean we are all morons. This thread started in the local forum and was moved.

 

[badazztealcobra]

And for the one post I saw on here I have never seen a 3" sailfin marked as a large fish.

I said 3.5" and thats what Dr. F&S considers a large fish if you look at their site.

My point was that a fish that is even only 3.5" should be in a 6 foot long tank. Only time I think they should be in a small tank is for quarantine, other than that it should be a large tank with lots of space.

Pretty much every site you go to recommends atleast a 90g, but after watching the tangs I had in my 180, they could've used more.

 

[sreefs]

A lot of people do not realize how fast most tangs grow when they are kept in an appropriate size tank and fed well. I had a 1" regal grow to 7" in one years time, in a 6 foot 135 gallon tank. They need to swim and pick for food all day, mine loved to swim against the current of 2 tunze 6100's and 2 vortechs mp40's. He's now in a 300 doing great these guys love to swim.
IMO

 

[snorvich]

I have been in this hobby since the 80's I will keep it civil and say you obviously have failed to do your research involving tangs. Try to justify it with numbers all you want, the fact of the matter is that you are providing a beyond poor environment for the fish. They are stressed and they are angry and will stay that way.

I agree with this poster. The analogy I would use is "yes, you can raise three children in a closet with one toilet, but they won't be happy". But since information was requested, the critical issue is tank length rather than tank volume, at least for certain tangs. In any case, I doubt that the tang that is acting abnormally can be saved, at least not in that environment.

 

[TampaReefer79]

Just because we are from Illinois does not mean we are all morons. This thread started in the local forum and was moved.

:beer:

No, no, no...you misunderstood me. In no way do I think folks from Illinois are morons. What I was getting at, and strikes me as funny...is that people do marine research in Illinois? lol Kind of far from the ocean to be doing 'marine research' if you ask me. The only thing they could do since they are landlocked is read books. I read books and have opinions, so why would the OP not listen to ME too?

 

[Machupicchu]

if i had a 50,000sqft house that was just one hallway i still prbly wouldnt be very happy with it. These schooling fish are used to millions upon millions of gallons to live in.

 

[Machupicchu]

btw the grouper in my avtar is in a 600gallon tank at work.

 

[jjk_reef00]

:beer:
I read books and have opinions, so why would the OP not listen to ME too?

Because you are the tang police! Just kidding :spin1:

People keep asking for proof that this tang needs a larger tank. Well try putting it in a 180 and you will have all the proof you need through observation. I'm surprised this thread is still going...

 

[medic29]

:beer:

No, no, no...you misunderstood me. In no way do I think folks from Illinois are morons. What I was getting at, and strikes me as funny...is that people do marine research in Illinois? lol Kind of far from the ocean to be doing 'marine research' if you ask me. The only thing they could do since they are landlocked is read books. I read books and have opinions, so why would the OP not listen to ME too?

You must have missed the part of the research conducted by the University of Illinois; funding research conducted in reef areas; also their specially made lab on campus. Not to mention the individuals who make the trips to coral reefs not only for pleasure, but also to study them and the environment. You don't have to live on the coast in order to study the animals and/or environment. They are not land locked just because of where they live, please.

 

[hybridazn]

This guy asks how to get his tang to act normal. So everyone tells him to put them in a bigger tank, he scoffs at the idea of doing that. So just let him be. His tangs will just continue to act weird and kill eachother