How to 'pair' Majestic Angelfish(Pomacanthus navarchus)

[ThRoewer]

From my experiences with subadult regal pairs it may take years for the dominant one to change into a functional male.
Unfortunately there hasn't been done much research on how these fish find or select their partners.

In general - based on hybrid pairings observed in the wild - I would assume that fish are generally not too picky. If there is no pool of candidates to choose from they will team up with whatever is there - even a different species of the same genus. A member here has an annularis that partnered up with a French Angelfish in his pool tank.

I think your chances are higher when starting out with one subadult and one juvenile in transition (at any stage).
Also, the size difference should be clear, but not exceed a certain limit. I think a good rule of thumb is a length difference of roughly one tailfin length. At least that's what worked for me so far. It's also roughly the size difference you see on pairs in the wild.

What is definitely important is the order in which the fish are added to the tank: the smaller one has to be added first and given at least a day or two (better more) to get familiar with the tank.

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[haydn]

From my experiences with subadult regal pairs it may take years for the dominant one to change into a functional male.
Unfortunately there hasn't been done much research on how these fish find or select their partners.

In general - based on hybrid pairings observed in the wild - I would assume that fish are generally not too picky. If there is no pool of candidates to choose from they will team up with whatever is there - even a different species of the same genus. A member here has an annularis that partnered up with a French Angelfish in his pool tank.

I think your chances are higher when starting out with one subadult and one juvenile in transition (at any stage).
Also, the size difference should be clear, but not exceed a certain limit. I think a good rule of thumb is a length difference of roughly one tailfin length. At least that's what worked for me so far. It's also roughly the size difference you see on pairs in the wild.

What is definitely important is the order in which the fish are added to the tank: the smaller one has to be added first and given at least a day or two (better more) to get familiar with the tank.

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Pretty much agree your conclusions, from my limited experience (Regal and Emperor Angels). The bit about the importance of adding in the correct order is, I think, paramount to success.

 

[Naraku]

I want one majestic and one emperor. Will they pair up?

 

[haydn]

I want one majestic and one emperor. Will they pair up?

No they are separate species so they won't pair, however, if you are asking if you can keep an Emperor and a Majestic in the same tank then the answer is a qualified yes depending on the size of your tank and what size the fish you are thinking of adding are.

 

[ThRoewer]

I want one majestic and one emperor. Will they pair up?

With that particular pairing I would have my doubts. But mixed pairs are not unheard of. Though if it happens then usually in very large tanks in the presence of other larger fish.
Mixed pairs are likely more for watching each other's backs than reproduction.

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[Nick_Northern]

[MENTION=10268]haydn[/MENTION] Did you ever try this in the end?

TMC have imported some tiny captive bred majestics, I have one on reserve but reading this I am tempted to get two to go in a 1050l reef!

Thanks

Nick

 

[haydn]

[MENTION=10268]haydn[/MENTION] Did you ever try this in the end?

TMC have imported some tiny captive bred majestics, I have one on reserve but reading this I am tempted to get two to go in a 1050l reef!

Thanks

Nick

No I decided to go in a different direction with the stocking, small, group fish, mainly different species of anthias and I considered the angels would spook them too much.

If this helps I don't think putting two fish of similar size together will work, even if they are juveniles, I found with Regals and Emperors, one fish needs to be in adult colours and the smaller one needs to be in juvenile colours. The small one needs to be put in first and allowed to get used to the tank before the larger one is added

 

[Nick_Northern]

No I decided to go in a different direction with the stocking, small, group fish, mainly different species of anthias and I considered the angels would spook them too much.

If this helps I don't think putting two fish of similar size together will work, even if they are juveniles, I found with Regals and Emperors, one fish needs to be in adult colours and the smaller one needs to be in juvenile colours. The small one needs to be put in first and allowed to get used to the tank before the larger one is added

Thanks I hadn't considered that, I'll stick to the one then. May look to add a larger emperor at a later date maybe

Cheers

Nick

 

[haydn]

Sorry to dig this up but I think there were a few people watching it and were interested in whether the project would happen.

I had decided to go a different way with this tank and had given up on pairing Majestics- then last week I went into a LFS in Leicester and they had just had some fish in. Two of them were Majestics of about 3 1/2" just the right size for my attempt. Thank fully the LFS owner has agreed to help and put the fish into adjacent tanks where they can see each other through the glass.



Early days but at least it isn't open warfare.

 

[alton]

Good luck with your adventure

 

[haydn]

Just been into the LFS who are holding the fish for a visit and the angels are looking so much more comfortable with each other, they are still in separate adjacent tanks but there is no fin flaring or any aggressive posturing through the glass like there was Thursday. They are picking food next to each other. If this keeps up I think I should be able to put them together earlier than I expected.

 

[haydn]

I decided to house the fish in a 100gall koi vat plumbed into to my system, that would give the fish plenty of room to get used to each other. I added some plastic tubes for the fish to hide in and some mature LR for them to browse.

I collected the fish on Sunday afternoon and decided to acclimatise together in the same bucket, the LFS is on a centralised system so the water conditions were the same. The fish went into the vat and immediately dived into separate tubes. I left them to settle.


Monday-Been quietly watching them, quite boring really (thank goodness) One is already displaying dominance, and the other seems to have accepted it without a fight. The dominant one will enter the tube where the other is hiding. The subdominant one just swims out of the tube and goes to another one, the dominant one doesn't chase. I saw something similar when I paired Emperor angels, the dominant fish just kept pushing the little one off the food, but without showing aggression just reinforcing 'I'm the boss'.

Still early days though.....

Tuesday-Very pleased so far, not a split fin in sight. I haven't needed to separate them again. One is clearly dominant and fortunately the other has accepted that without challenge. The dominant one obviously is spending more time in the open, the other one is spending time in the open but staying near cover. Interestingly the dominant one always dives into the tube where the other one is, making it move to another tube. there isn't any chasing, it's more 'I'm the boss so you move'.

I'm really happy at the moment, I don't think it could have gone much better- it certainly could have gone much worse!

I would add pictures but I don't use photo sharing sites and I can't see any other way of posting them.

 

[haydn]

I have reached a point where I can't see any advantages of keeping them in the tub any more. They are nowhere near being a 'pair' which is expected as given current expertise, they will both be females. They tolerate each other, one is dominant and lets the other one know. I haven't seen any fighting, although there is still chasing but the subdominant one still has all it fins. I haven't needed to separate them since they were put in the tub 2 weeks ago.
I think it's time to move them into my tank, hopefully the move won't disturb the status que and they will accept their current positions. And because there are other fish in the tank they will be encouraged to get braver and come out into the open more.

And with a huge amount of luck, as they mature, one will become a male and I will have a pair.

 

[OrionN]

Good luck with them. If I don't already have two Regal angels in my tank, I would have go for two Majestic angels. Mine is at the same stage, sort of. Two young ones both just about to loose their ocellaris on the dorsal fins.

 

[haydn]

Good luck with them. If I don't already have two Regal angels in my tank, I would have go for two Majestic angels. Mine is at the same stage, sort of. Two young ones both just about to loose their ocellaris on the dorsal fins.

Are they OK- I tried with two juvenile Regals and they never really settled, they were continuingly bickering. In the end I had to remove one and replace it with an adult about twice the size of the juvi, they then settles and paired.

 

[OrionN]

So far so good. They are about slightly larger then the largest of the Flame angels and about to loose their ocellaris on the doral fins

 

[haydn]

The dominant one is out and feeding, the other one has been out at the same time and fed. The dominant one didn't chase at all it just 'pushed' it out of the way, in an 'I'm the boss' show. I saw similar behaviour when I paired Emperors. Hopefully as they both get braver they will become more used to seeing and interacting with each other.

I really can't believe how far forward they are, I expected a lot of chasing and fin faring, perhaps with a split fin or two.

I am one very happy aquarist at the moment

 

[haydn]

Sorry for the rubbish video but I just grabbed the camera a shot from across the room without adjusting anything.

But a positive start

 

[haydn]

Gave them a couple of clams in shells yesterday afternoon, even though I dropped them well apart the dominant one definitely wouldn't share, when the other fish tried to sneak a bite it got pushed off but not overly aggressively, just the 'I'm the boss and you need to accept it' thing.

This morning before the lights came on they were both out, following each other and picking at the LR.

I can't believe how well this is going. I feel the guys at Clearwater (the LFS I bought them from in the UK), by putting the fish in adjacent tanks for 3 weeks, letting them get used to each other, allowed the initial 'whos going to be boss' thing out of the way. Then putting them together in a large vat at the same time with hiding places for 2 weeks, before adding them to my tank seems to have worked a treat.

I am getting more confident by the day that I will in the longer term end up with a pair of Majestic angels. I have been in this hobby for many years and I find it wonderful that sometimes there are still things that just surprise and excite you

 

[haydn]

A bit boring update (thank goodness).

In my experience Majestics tend to be shy and hang in the background until they get larger. Having said that I have a dominant fish which tends to swim in the open more and a much shyer one which spends it's time in the rockwork. The dominant one uses every opportunity to express it's dominance- short of violence. When I drop cockles in their shells in they both come out to feed, the dominant one allows the other to feed, but the sub-dominant is very nervous and dives into the rockwork at the slightest movement, this similar when they are feeding on frozen in the water column. Both fish pick on the rockwork in sight of each other but the subdominant is wary of every movement of the other and will dive into the rockwork if it gets too close. Both are nice, fat and feeding well.

Since, I think (hope), both my fish are female at the moment and one needs a flood of hormones to change to male, I believe this behaviour is normal. I have seen similar behaviour patterns in Regal Angels when I paired them and in groups of anthias. I have tried and can't find any info at what age or how long the transition is likely to take, but looking at the plus side, as they are living together and not beating the ***** out of each other, I think I'm on the right track. I just feel it's a case of watch and wait.