Hyposalinity: how-to; when-to; how-long-to

[billsreef]

Straight RO water. Your trying to lower the salt concentration, so it would be counter productive to add RO water with salt in it Also be sure and keep a close eye on ammonia, as there will be some inverts in the LR that will die off.

 

[Cris Tina]

Hi all. I have a 30 gallon tank, with 1 green spotted puffer, 1 red flame hawkfisk, 1 coral beauty, 1 six-line wrasse, 1 bicolor blenny . I brought ick into the tank either with the blenny or with a LR that I bought and didn’t quarantine. I wasn’t really convinced it was ich (I guess I hoped it wasn’t), so I waited couple of days to see what happens. At first it was just on the CB, today 1 spot, and the day after – his forehead was full! Didn’t see anything on the other fish. Then the blenny started to scratch, and the six line also, and the hawkfish was nervous. So last Monday evening I started to lower down the salinity. Fish were eating fine. Two days later it was at 22 (from 30); 3rd day, fish were still eating, but scratching, and I noticed that the CB looked kind of fat… He was eating well, still had A LOT of very tiny dots on him, and I thought that he was just… fat. Next day he looked worse, I realized he was not ok, I googled what it could be, but there’s not a lot of info about this out there. Friday sg was already at 1.009, my blenny wouldn’t come out for food, CB was just swimming around, wouldn’t eat, still covered with ich! I ran to the LFS and they gave me KanaPlex, an antibiotic, assuming it was an infection. I put the medication in, but Saturday morning I found my poor blenny dead! He was also swollen, just like the CB, who passed away later in the evening! The wrasse was still full of ich! I was expecting to see some relieve, and I didn’t understand why my CB and blenny were so swollen! I checked the PH (which I have never tested before) and it seemed low , so I added 3 tsp of baking soda, gradually, which raised the PH above 1.010! I added fresh water until it showed almost 1.008, but the ich disappeared from the fish, the wrasse looked much better and started eating, the flame hawkfish seemed not to care and nor did the puffer. These 2 had already been through this few months before, when I lost another CB, dottyback, six-line, bicolor blenny, while treating the tank with malachite green… What do you think had happened with the CB and the blenny? Are they more sensitive? What could have caused the bloating? I was thinking that, theoretically, since the ich is gone from the fish, and can’t come back because of the low sg, I could remove the fish from the tank, clean the tank and the substrate thoroughly, with hot water, maybe let it dry for 1-2 days, then put the fish back in and slowly raise the salinity… I keep thinking of this. This way I won’t have to keep the fish in low sg for 8 weeks. Anybody, any thoughts? They would be greatly appreciated!

 

[ThRoewer]

In a lab setting, utilizing only one species of fish, researchers have only be able to keep single isolated strains going for 11 generations. Keep in mind, in our aquaria there is little guarantee that any ich infestation is only a single strain. It's quite likely that on any given fish that more than one strain could be present at the time of introduction. Multiple fish with multiple introductions greatly increases the probability that multiple strains of ich have been introduced to the tank.

Do they have some form of sexual reproduction or other means of DNA swapping? How does that work?

 

[billsreef]

Hi all. I have a 30 gallon tank, with 1 green spotted puffer, 1 red flame hawkfisk, 1 coral beauty, 1 six-line wrasse, 1 bicolor blenny . I brought ick into the tank either with the blenny or with a LR that I bought and didn't quarantine. I wasn't really convinced it was ich (I guess I hoped it wasn't), so I waited couple of days to see what happens. At first it was just on the CB, today 1 spot, and the day after "“ his forehead was full! Didn't see anything on the other fish. Then the blenny started to scratch, and the six line also, and the hawkfish was nervous. So last Monday evening I started to lower down the salinity. Fish were eating fine. Two days later it was at 22 (from 30); 3rd day, fish were still eating, but scratching, and I noticed that the CB looked kind of fat"¦ He was eating well, still had A LOT of very tiny dots on him, and I thought that he was just"¦ fat. Next day he looked worse, I realized he was not ok, I googled what it could be, but there's not a lot of info about this out there. Friday sg was already at 1.009, my blenny wouldn't come out for food, CB was just swimming around, wouldn't eat, still covered with ich! I ran to the LFS and they gave me KanaPlex, an antibiotic, assuming it was an infection. I put the medication in, but Saturday morning I found my poor blenny dead! He was also swollen, just like the CB, who passed away later in the evening! The wrasse was still full of ich! I was expecting to see some relieve, and I didn't understand why my CB and blenny were so swollen! I checked the PH (which I have never tested before) and it seemed low , so I added 3 tsp of baking soda, gradually, which raised the PH above 1.010! I added fresh water until it showed almost 1.008, but the ich disappeared from the fish, the wrasse looked much better and started eating, the flame hawkfish seemed not to care and nor did the puffer. These 2 had already been through this few months before, when I lost another CB, dottyback, six-line, bicolor blenny, while treating the tank with malachite green"¦ What do you think had happened with the CB and the blenny? Are they more sensitive? What could have caused the bloating? I was thinking that, theoretically, since the ich is gone from the fish, and can't come back because of the low sg, I could remove the fish from the tank, clean the tank and the substrate thoroughly, with hot water, maybe let it dry for 1-2 days, then put the fish back in and slowly raise the salinity"¦ I keep thinking of this. This way I won't have to keep the fish in low sg for 8 weeks. Anybody, any thoughts? They would be greatly appreciated!

Having treated lots of blennies and CB's with hypo, and never had that problem. I expect either measurement error or something else was going such as an internal bacterial infection for some reason.

What were you using to measure salinity? Were you also monitoring ammonia? The hypo would killed off some of the organisms on LR and likely leaded to ammonia spikes.

If you wash the tank and LR with hot water followed by a drying, your going to recycle the tank. I'd either continue with hypo in the main tank, watching the ammonia and pH levels, as well as being sure salinity is accurately measured on daily bases...or separate out the fish to a separate QT to finish treatment while leaving the display tank fishless for 6 to 8 weeks.

Do they have some form of sexual reproduction or other means of DNA swapping? How does that work?

Yes, they do reproduce via a form of sexual reproduction (conjugation), as well as asexually via fission.

 

[Shark.Bait]

I've heard it's harmful to treat Red Sea fish with hyposalinity, as they are use to a higher salt concentration in their environment. I'm interested in trying it with a purple tang and regal angel specifically. I assume as long as I lower the SG over several days, I shouldn't experience much trouble. Can anybody confirm or deny this due to personal experience?

 

[ThRoewer]

I had two ORA Pseudochromis fridmani in hyposalinity and besides some bacterial issues they handled it fine.
I haven't yet put wild caught Red Sea fish through hyposalinity but doubt it would be different.

Are your fish actually sick or is this a preventive measure for new acquisitions?
With only two fish, and especially a Pygoplites, TTM may be the better solution because it is quicker, especially if this is just preventive and these fish are new.

 

[billsreef]

I've heard it's harmful to treat Red Sea fish with hyposalinity, as they are use to a higher salt concentration in their environment. I'm interested in trying it with a purple tang and regal angel specifically. I assume as long as I lower the SG over several days, I shouldn't experience much trouble. Can anybody confirm or deny this due to personal experience?

It's a myth IME.

 

[Cris Tina]

Having treated lots of blennies and CB's with hypo, and never had that problem. I expect either measurement error or something else was going such as an internal bacterial infection for some reason.

What were you using to measure salinity? Were you also monitoring ammonia? The hypo would killed off some of the organisms on LR and likely leaded to ammonia spikes.

If you wash the tank and LR with hot water followed by a drying, your going to recycle the tank. I'd either continue with hypo in the main tank, watching the ammonia and pH levels, as well as being sure salinity is accurately measured on daily bases...or separate out the fish to a separate QT to finish treatment while leaving the display tank fishless for 6 to 8 weeks.

Hey Bill, I appreciate your fast reply! I measured the salinity with a ATC portable refractometer, and ammonia and nitrates are lower than ever. The CB started to get bloated before I reached 1.010. My blenny was just fine (except the ich), and then one day he was hiding and not eating, and next morning he was dead. The CB was laying on the bottom mostly, for a day, and I didn't have the heart to pull him out, hoping the antibiotic will kick in and he would recover. Then I felt guilty I let him suffer The LR I actually put them in my QT, along with the hermits, and I kept the fish in the DT, assuming the 10 g QT would be too small for 5 fish, so all I have in the DT is the sand and some shells. I thought the hyposalinity kills the bacteria anyways. I'm just worried about keeping the fist in hypo for 8 weeks! Thanks again Bill!

 

[billsreef]

Putting the LR and inverts in the smaller tank is a good way of doing it

When you say ammonia is the lowest it's been, just what is that number? Nitrates aren't really an issue unless crazy high numbers, so not really worried about that one. With the refractometer, when is the last time you calibrated it, and with what?

 

[Cris Tina]

Putting the LR and inverts in the smaller tank is a good way of doing it

When you say ammonia is the lowest it's been, just what is that number? Nitrates aren't really an issue unless crazy high numbers, so not really worried about that one. With the refractometer, when is the last time you calibrated it, and with what?

Thank you
I use the API test kits, and it shows 0. Today I made a water change (10%). I just bought the refractometer when I decided to go with hyposalinity, because I didn't trust my Instant Ocean hydrometer (which by the way was pretty good for a plastic instrument), and I calibrated it at the beginning with RO water, and verified it couple of times after that.

My concern is that if I add baking soda to raise the PH (which was below 7.8), the sg goes up on the scale, at the same amount of salt in the water. So if I add water to keep the sg at 1.009, the salinity is lower than before I added the baking soda. Does it make sense? I've had 1.008 for the past 2 days, and fish seem to be ok... I'm not sure they won't be affected on long term though

 

[billsreef]

Sounds like you have the bases properly covered. The baking soda, having sodium, does impact the pH, so no real surprise there. Unless you combine using copper with hypo, don't sweat the pH too much.

 

[Deinonych]

Don't you mean bicarbonate, Bill?

 

[Cris Tina]

Sounds like you have the bases properly covered. The baking soda, having sodium, does impact the pH, so no real surprise there. Unless you combine using copper with hypo, don't sweat the pH too much.

My PH test showed 7.8, using an API test kit, that's why I added baking soda, I didn't think it would impact the specific gravity, and if at normal salinity it probably would not matter, it does though when I have to keep the specific gravity at the lowest limit (1.008-1.008). It's been at 1.008 for a week now. For how long should I keep it at this level? Temperature is at 75F. If the parasite's life cycle is 2 weeks, why keep hypo for 4-8 weeks? Is it safe to keep the fish for so long at 1.008? Only the six line wrasse and the red flame hawkfish are alive, and the puffer, but he doesn't care...

Thanks
Cristina

 

[billsreef]

Don't you mean bicarbonate, Bill?

Oops, what I actually meant to say was the sodium in the baking soda would impact salinity...coffee must not have fully kicked in when I made that post :eek2:

My PH test showed 7.8, using an API test kit, that's why I added baking soda, I didn't think it would impact the specific gravity, and if at normal salinity it probably would not matter, it does though when I have to keep the specific gravity at the lowest limit (1.008-1.008). It's been at 1.008 for a week now. For how long should I keep it at this level? Temperature is at 75F. If the parasite's life cycle is 2 weeks, why keep hypo for 4-8 weeks? Is it safe to keep the fish for so long at 1.008? Only the six line wrasse and the red flame hawkfish are alive, and the puffer, but he doesn't care...

Thanks
Cristina

I wouldn't sweat the 7.8 since your not using copper. The reason for running hypo for the 4-8 weeks is that the ich forms a cysts that can survive for several weeks (72 days is the longest ever recorded, and viability drops off before that). The fish are typically fine for that period of time.

 

[Cris Tina]

I wouldn't sweat the 7.8 since your not using copper. The reason for running hypo for the 4-8 weeks is that the ich forms a cysts that can survive for several weeks (72 days is the longest ever recorded, and viability drops off before that). The fish are typically fine for that period of time.

Thanks Bill. I appreciate your prompt answers!

Cristina

 

[thompa81]

Hi!
One small question, I got ich at my clowns, tangs and foxface. All of the are now going through hypersalinity. No problem there.

However in my display tank I have two black and white damsel that are IMPOSSIBLE to capture. Would the parasite still die within 9-10 weeks with the damsels in the tank (if they survive). Or do I need to remove the damsels?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[DeathMagnetic]

Sorry.... No... If there r fish in the tank, there will continue to be the ich parasite

 

[thompa81]

Ok, I suspected that was the case!

Thanks for the fast reply.

I´ll go fishing now :fun2:

 

[las]

I have a30 gal QT and am doin hypo. How do I dose baking soda per gallon?

 

[billsreef]

Use the Alkalinity column of jdieck's Reef Chemistry Calculator