I need some help with light sps coloration

[JW Jersey]

Hello everyone, I need some advise on my ongoing problem with most of all my sps are getting very light in color pale like, not bleaching or browning. I've had most of my frags from 6 months to a year in this setup. I have a 90gal display with a 30 gal sump. This a Bare Bottom setup with about 120lbs LR with 3 fish 1 Powder blue tan, kole tang and a six line wrasse. I went out and purchased 4 lyretail anthiases that are still in QT to see if the added nutrients helped with my poor coloration. Back to the system For flow I have a mag 9.5 for a return going through a filter sock then through a ER 6-2+ skimmer then back to display.
In the display there are two 6100 streams on a controller. For Lighting I have two 250w ushio 14k hqi bulbs on for 8 hrs and 2 uri T5 super actinic that are on for 12 hrs. My water parameters are as follows.
PH= 7.9 am 8.05 pm( kalk gets dosed with auto top off)
Temp=80.5am to 81.2pm
Mag=1350
Dkh=9
Ca=330 (also have a deltec 601 reactor that's why my ph runs on the low side.)
No3=undectable
po4=undectable (running rowaphos in a reactor)
salinity=1.026 refractor and all other tests are from salifert kits


On a second note I think the growth could be faster than it is.
If there is any other information that I missed just let me know.

Thanks John

 

[trueblackpercula]

ph could be a problem, Also your lights are they new or are they old? It could be the lights is the uv sheild cracked ? or missing? got any pictures?
Michael

 

[DaddyJax]

I think once the anthias is in the tank for a month you will see a huge difference.

 

[Amphiprion]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7724916#post7724916 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaddyJax
I think once the anthias is in the tank for a month you will see a huge difference.

Most likely.

 

[JW Jersey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7724627#post7724627 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
ph could be a problem, Also your lights are they new or are they old? It could be the lights is the uv sheild cracked ? or missing? got any pictures?
Michael

The bulb were replaced about 3 months ago, uv lenses are still in place and are clean.

I will get some updated pictures tomorrow but here is one. you could see a couple in the center that are light. this picture is a couple months old.

 

[javatech]

I see your coraline is kind of light too not very pink, im having the same problem

 

[Michael Mota]

Ph seems to be fine, and the slow growth would probably be due to the 14k lights having less par than a 10k bulb. I think maybe a low nutrient situation or lack of trace elements.

 

[trueblackpercula]

ok what about your temp? is it on the high side? your tank looks like its in great shape. do you have a fuge? and if so are you croping it in a flow area? Did the lighing up of the Sps start after the new bulb? if so you sould have raised it higher for the first month until the got used to the new spectrum. So times corals get bleached out with new bulbs.
Michael

 

[gil716]

not that i think this is the cause of your light coloration, but at 330ppm your calcium is a bit low. should be at least 380ppm.

 

[SunnyX]

Raise you Ca to AT LEAST 400ppm. Your Ph is fine where it is currently at. Every system is different and it is very hard to find the Ph sweetspot. Ph too low or high and growth ceases, hit the Ph perfectly and watch your growth take off.

An increase in fish should help bring some color back. Try decreasing you MH photo period to 5-6hrs for only a week, then go back to the regular lighting schedule afterwards.

 

[DitchPlains2]

i think, they think

i think, they think

I think maybe a low nutrient situation or lack of trace elements.

Correcta mundo!

I think adding Anthias, and reducing your light schedulae as well as rasing calc, and maybe a good water change to replinhs trace elements will help.

All good suggestions.

David

 

[Stoney Mahony]

Agreed that Calc needs to be up in the 400's and the anthias will help. Alk could use a little bump as well. I would'nt however change the lighting cycle for a week and then bring it back to normal. It takes a little longer than a week to regain color in your corals. If you want to shorten the lighting period to see if that helps, do it over a 1 month trial and take pics every week. Its alot easier to see in the pics than by memory. Just my 2c

 

[JW Jersey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7726691#post7726691 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
ok what about your temp? is it on the high side? your tank looks like its in great shape. do you have a fuge? and if so are you croping it in a flow area? Did the lighing up of the Sps start after the new bulb? if so you sould have raised it higher for the first month until the got used to the new spectrum. So times corals get bleached out with new bulbs.
Michael

Thanks for the posts everyone.
My temp flux in the am before lights are on 80.5 and in the pm it maxxes out at 81.2 in give or take .2 digrees in the summer months.

My previous ca post was a typo, the actule ca level is 430ppm
sorry about that.

I do not have a fuge, I just don't have the room. I will most likly set one up when i get the 180 gallon.

sence that picture the coralline has really taken off and covered all the glass in the background. It is kind of pinkish.

I was thinking of reducing my photo period to 6 hrs to see if that could help on the halides.

 

[JW Jersey]

Was a deep blue colored tort

was a lavender color with purple tips

was a bright blue milli

 

[Joao Monteiro]

What´s the effect of the Anthias ?

 

[King-Kong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7725989#post7725989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Michael Mota
Ph seems to be fine, and the slow growth would probably be due to the 14k lights having less par than a 10k bulb. I think maybe a low nutrient situation or lack of trace elements.

14k Ushios/BLV's, according to the numbers on Sanjay's tests, have just as much, if not more par, than their 10k counterparts.

14k Ushios arent very 14k at all; I have two.

 

[Michael Mota]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7734133#post7734133 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by King-Kong
14k Ushios/BLV's, according to the numbers on Sanjay's tests, have just as much, if not more par, than their 10k counterparts.

14k Ushios arent very 14k at all; I have two.

I think you should take those tests with a grain of salt. Do your own testing and you may find that a 10k Xm bulb is putting out much more par than those. Also Par is dependent on which ballast you are running the bulbs on. jmho

 

[King-Kong]

I had both the 14k ushio and the 10k ushio side by side, on the same ballast. I've got first hand experience with this bulbs, and I'd still sooner trust Sanjay's results.

Also, considering the overwhelming dependence on Sanjay's light tests, I wouldnt be so quick to "take them with a grain of salt".

Sanjay does this hobby a great service with the objective and methodical testing he does of ballasts, reflectors, and bulbs.

I think you need to research more of his methods and his history before casting aside his work.

 

[Michael Mota]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7734357#post7734357 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by King-Kong
I had both the 14k ushio and the 10k ushio side by side, on the same ballast. I've got first hand experience with this bulbs, and I'd still sooner trust Sanjay's results.

Also, considering the overwhelming dependence on Sanjay's light tests, I wouldnt be so quick to "take them with a grain of salt".

Sanjay does this hobby a great service with the objective and methodical testing he does of ballasts, reflectors, and bulbs.

I think you need to research more of his methods and his history before casting aside his work.

I for one use what I believe to work and what has worked for me. I am not one to follow the experts and what they have to say or do. I do read and watch what the experts do but I am not one for the fads. I am a simple reefer and thats that. The Ushio does put out less par than say the Xm. Look those up and see what you get. No I was not putting his research down just that with all reef tanks being so different and with many things that can affect a reef tank in different ways I say do what works for your tank.
I see allot of posts on here from reefers with a lot of issues in their reef tanks and most of them are not sure what is happening to their tanks or corals. People need to slow down and monitor their tanks closely and make one change at a time also allowing sufficient time for the change to take place and see what the results are. Too many people are trying to imitate others tanks and find them selves at a lost.
I was only trying to help this person also. Not knowing what type of bulbs or ballasts he is running it is safe to assume that the 14k is putting out less par than a 10k Xm. The only bulb that I know that has more par over all is the Iwaski 65k. Last time I checked This was correct.
Please I do not want to have an argument over this, it is just to petty. I was only trying to help out but I can see that my help here is not really needed. I then regress from this conversation and say it was just my opinion.
Take care,
Michael

 

[King-Kong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7734454#post7734454 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Michael Mota
I for one use what I believe to work and what has worked for me. I am not one to follow the experts and what they have to say or do. I do read and watch what the experts do but I am not one for the fads. I am a simple reefer and thats that. The Ushio does put out less par than say the Xm. Look those up and see what you get. No I was not putting his research down just that with all reef tanks being so different and with many things that can affect a reef tank in different ways I say do what works for your tank.
I see allot of posts on here from reefers with a lot of issues in their reef tanks and most of them are not sure what is happening to their tanks or corals. People need to slow down and monitor their tanks closely and make one change at a time also allowing sufficient time for the change to take place and see what the results are. Too many people are trying to imitate others tanks and find them selves at a lost.
I was only trying to help this person also. Not knowing what type of bulbs or ballasts he is running it is safe to assume that the 14k is putting out less par than a 10k Xm. The only bulb that I know that has more par over all is the Iwaski 65k. Last time I checked This was correct.
Please I do not want to have an argument over this, it is just to petty. I was only trying to help out but I can see that my help here is not really needed. I then regress from this conversation and say it was just my opinion.
Take care,
Michael

I'm not having an arguement; it's a discussion. The purpose of this board. We are allowed to discuss inconsistancies we find with the posts of others, or point certain aspects. Just because we disagree, does not mean we argue. It is healthy to keep dialogue open.

I don't know how XM got involved in this discussion. In the original post the user stated he was using 14k ushios; you stated they probably have less par "than a 10k bulb". I countered that saying the 14k actually has more par than a 10k ushio; a bulb well known for it's great growth. I assumed since he had already defined Ushio as his brand, we'd keep with that.

I would not call either bulbs "fads". The 10k's have shown a long track record of dependibility and stable growth. Infact, better manufacturing and consistancy than even XM, but that is neither here nor there.

Either way; 10k or 14k, his concern wasnt growth, but coloration. If anything, brighter bulbs have been found to reduce coloration in most of the corals we keep. People with higher temperature bulbs tend to have better colors because they probably arent "burning" their corals as much as users with higher power lights (flow, water quality, and feeding are also all factors). You'll find that with certain reflectors, on certain bulbs, peak intensity can surpass that found on noon-hour sun periods on the reef (and these intensities are found in the 10k and less bulbs). Imagine an 8 hour noon and how corals might respond to that.

To address the last points; there are many people here who are self-proclaimed experts, and many more who follow. It is the way of the world, however it should all be challenged (I agree with you). In fact, I recently got into that very discussion related to red bug treatments and the duration between treatments (no one has actually done the research necessary, aside from what Eric B. has thus far done, so everyone just repeats the same information).

I state the above in a calm and respectful manner; not in an arguementative one, and hope you arent dissauded from further participating in our discussions.