I overheard at an LFS

Paul B

Premium Member
So I go into this LFS and it happens to be one of the largest and oldest stores in NY, I actually helped start their tanks many years ago, anyway I am looking at the fish and there was this guy there with his young Daughter and I hear her say "Daddy, I want that gobi" I looked at the "gobi" and it was a mandarin alone in a tank of anemones. I kept shopping and I heard him say that they just set up the tank yesterday.
So the salesman comes over to them and is telling them what fish to buy. They were going to get a tang, that "gobi" a couple of firefish and they asked what that "snot" looking thing on the glass was and if they could put it in their tank.
The salesman went to get a net and I told the guy that he doesn't wan't that lettuce slug or the "gobi" which is a mandarin or the tang. He asked me if mandarins were to mean to put in his tank and what was the problem with the tang in his 20 gallon 2 day old tank. I only had 15 seconds before the salesman came back and all I had time to say was "trust me".
So when the salesman arrived I walked away and he told the salesman he wanted to look some more and I showed the guy what he could put in his tank for his Daughter. I pointed out some cheap damsels and a small arrow crab. It was clear to me that the only thing this guy knew about fish was that they were wet.
But I really couldn't give him a 4 year lesson in the store so I hope his damsels make it to tomorrow.
In this store I noticed that they had a tank of about 30 copperband butterflies and they were less than ten bucks.
Normally that is a steal for a copperband until you notice that in the same system was a tank full of mandarins, and they were "all" dead. Dead mandarins look just like live mandarins except their eyes cloud up, and of course eventually, they rot. Also in the tank with the copperbands was a large angelfish, dead and a hogfish, almost dead. Well that was an hour ago so I am sure it's dead now, unless they sold it.
The copperbands were still a great price although thety were full of ich and I know that as soon as you remove them from that copper loaded water, they will be covered in paracites.
They also had a tank of large watchman gobies for 8 bucks, another great deal and as I looked at them, I said to myself "self" these guys look different than any watchman I have ever seen. They had long spines to their fins and I always go for the unusual so I put on my reading glasses.
They didn't have long spines, their fins were "only" spines with no fin material in them.
This store always has great "deals" and unusual fish but their husbandry practices are, and always have been aweful and they have been in business almost fifty years.
I abhor stealing and thats what this store is doing to unsuspecting hobbiests.
Not to mention what they are doing to all this livestock. People go in there and figure that the employees know what they are doing and I guess trust them to steer them in the right direction. It makes me think of those commercials that ask: "If you have ever been injured while working, skiing, walking or doing just about anything or if you have ever tried on a pair of pants that made you look fat or if anyone on the street ever looked at you funny, said anything to you or even brushed against you while you were in a crowded subway. Or have you ever gotten anything in your eye, stepped in poop, went bald, been fired or eaten something in a restaurant that you didn't like.
You know the commercials :beer:
 
I had a similar experience. Our LFS gave us horrible advise when we started. Fortunately, we found someone at a different store who is more knowledgeable. We went back to the first store a few days ago to buy food and heard the same awful advise being given to unsuspecting first timers. I felt so sorry for that couple. I had to just bite my lip to keep from telling them to run away, quick!
 
I would be nice if someone inspected these places and gave out fines for negligence. Probably wont happen, but it would be nice.
 
I've been there so many times. You just want to reach out and help people but it's so awkward in this context and the person may not appreciate it always.
 
Years ago i tried to politely 'help' a couple going through the same experience at a big LFS. When the salesman returned and they cancelled their ridiculous new tank fish list they also pointed me out as the reason for their decision to wait a lot longer prior to adding livestock to their new tank.
The salesman was not happy and very rudely told me to mind my own business, when i pointed out that he was either lying to them or simply incompetent things escalated rapidly and next thing i know the owner comes out of the office and tells me i'm now banned and to get out of the store. Before i knew it i had 3 sales guys and the owner standing around me and the owner says ' get this smart *** out of my shop '. I calmly pointed out what i would do to the first person who tried to lay a hand on me at which point the owner pulled out his mobile and called the police telling them a mad man was threatening his staff. Why was i in such a bad LFS in the first place you may ask, well they were so bad that i once walked in and saw 2 x blue maxima's newly arrived in a coral tank with the old goni price of $25 still written on the glass, i asked the salesman if they were $25 each or the pair lol and he says ' oh no that price is per coral ' - ' no probs i'll take both for $50 then'. I giggled my *** off the whole way home and couldn't even brag to my wife at my win as she already thought clams were only $30 - no clue where she got that idea........:lol2:
 
In fairness, these are businesses we are talking about. Their primary purpose is to make a profit, not to educate the consumer. So expecting them to turn away a sale because the consumer doesn't know any better is a little unrealistic.

BTW, in case people didn't know with these little confrontations in stores (at least for those in the US), once the employees or store owner tell you to leave you've essentially lost. A lot of people tend to think with retail stores that they can't be kicked out, but once they've told you to leave you are trespassing. The store is now in the right and there is no chance of them listening. In fact, they'll probably dig in even harder and insist they were in the right.


Bad husbandry on the other hand is always a bit silly and counterproductive, since livestock is essentially money. So dead livestock is simply wasted money and lost potential profit.
 
Problem is, stores don't want to pay or can't afford to pay knowledgeable people to work there, so they hire teens or pretty much anyone that will work for basically minimum wage. Friends of mine own a fish store and servicing company, and they have a very hard time finding reliable and knowledgeable staff.
 
I don't for a minute advise anyone to get themselves into a situation like mine, in Aus if you are asked to leave a premises and refuse the store must call the police - they can not physically touch you to remove you. Once the police arrive the owner etc must repeat the request in front of the police at which time if you refuse you are now trespassing and can be arrested. I left the store when it got to this ridiculous point rather than wasting police time - they do have much more important things to do than removing me from a LFS and i had no intention of refusing to leave if they were present.
What i did achieved nothing when all is said and done........
 
I would be nice if someone inspected these places and gave out fines for negligence. Probably wont happen, but it would be nice.

There is no law preventing stupid advice to consumers and I hope we never get to the nanny state that tries to enact one. I can remember almost as far back as Paul B can and remember when the LFS was a great source of info. Not any more. I'm always amazed at the number of folks who don't even own a book on the subject; all their research is done one question at a time. Forums are great; but the responsibility of learning the basics of the hobby still belong with the consumer, IMO. I can't imagine spending hundreds of dollars on anything without some basic research.

I can't even guess how many kids were crying their heads off when "little Nemo" died after an hour or so in the goldfish bowl that Mommy bought on the way home from that silly movie.
 
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At one or two of the LFS's in the area, I have suggested to many people that they should either wait, or choose fish "x" instead of fish "y". I also give them the web addresses of both this site and www.wetwebmedia.com to use as reference.

When I worked at a LFS many years ago, I would sometimes get customers mad at me because I would ask them about their systems before selling them fish. Fresh or marine. Quite often, those same people would end up becoming long term customers when they realized that I was actually doing them a favor by not letting them kill things they were not ready for.
 
unfortunately this is just 1 store, i am sure it happens all over the world many many many times every hour.
But do i really blame the sales person. yes and some what no. they are in it to make money.
person buy do i blame them or not YES i blame them. one should do research before jumping into anything.
no one goes to a dealership and looks at a car and says i want this one and just go pay.
people even sniff and eat part of vegetable or fruits at walmart before buying for Gods sake. why cat they do the same with fish? why its it just too easily dispensable?
i have 1 word for such people IR-RESPONSIBLE.
 
Thankfully, there is another side. I'm brand new to the hobby and took a couple of classes at my LFS and everything they said agrees with what I had read here. They sell RO/DI and salt water but the first thing said in class was get your own RO/DI and learn to make your own water.

Last week I heard a conversation with a customer that went something like this...

Customer...I want to buy that fish (a Mandarin)
Sales person....sorry that fish is already sold.
Customer.... can you order me one?
Sales person....asked about his tank (just cycled, no fuge). She told him no we can't order that fish for you, it would starve in your tank.

I heard a couple of other conversations that were similar. One was wanting fish inappropriate for his tank size. Another was wanting some plants (coral) to go along with his fish. The appropriate advice was given despite missing a potential sale. Thankfully there are some good places out there.
 
When I get stationed at different bases I look around at all the stores and like to get to know owners almos like interviewing who will he my money. I usually grill staff on stuff, and see what they know. The stores I think are the best suited for my cash I usually would go into alot and eventually it would come down to I would end up helping customers then would lead to me volunteering my extra time to come in clean tanks and help customers out. This is how I have gotten 80% of corals and 50% of fish free. Along with lots of supplies.
 
I agree that there are a few LFS as a whole that are good, there are also some employees at a generally bad LFS that are good. I wouldn't dare pigeonhole every LFS employee at a bad store as ignorant, I've met some at generally bad stores that really knew their stuff, however with the amount of knowledge they have, they are generally busier with customers a lot longer than the kid with the net in hand and a bag in the other.

When I'm at the store I generally try to offer my opinion ( as I'm entitled to that ) without criticizing the employee. Sometimes the best approach is to add something to what was said that is correct and the person can change their mind. Take for example the Mandarin above ( and isn't that one common? ), When you hear the sales person say that they'll grab a bag, you can just say simply "I read those need an aquarium that is a few years old or it will starve". You aren't saying anything that isn't (generally) true, you aren't telling them not to buy it, just letting them know that it probably isn't going to make it.

Approach is everything and as long as you aren't telling them to leave the store without buying anything, the store will likely not kick you out. You may also find that the customer will come back to you asking for your opinion of another fish, bypassing the ignorant employee all together.
 
I called my Lfs to see if my live rock I ordered came in and the Girl says what color I will look I asked her are you serious?... She says yes lmao
 
I'm new to this hobby and have done a lot of reading on this site. When my wife and I are in a LFS and I'm not sure she gets annoyed with me when I don't always want to ask the clerk questions. I have made it a point of showing some of the miss information they provide and now she understands and doesn't push me to ask if i don't want to. I would rather miss an opportunity than do something wrong.
 
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