I think Ich is a farce

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James,

I know a guy who has not worn a seatbelt for 25 years and has not been hurt in 2 accidents. Does that equate to sound logic that seatbelts are too much trouble. Be careful how you apply observations to logical conclusions...

Is there are risk to not using a QT setup... sure. Is your tank doomed if you don't? Who knows, but the chances are higher than if you don't QT. You can assign value any way you see fit based on your own goals and perspective. If you feel a QT is a waste of time, then don't use one :)
 
iwishtofish said:
You can 100% eradicate it, but, as you argue, we must make considerable extra effort to do so.
Click to expand...

Lets say you're 1 of the unlucky 5 out of 1000 that goes fallow and is unsuccessful. You stay in the hobby. You go 10 weeks. You go 12 weeks. You go 16 weeks and finally you manage to beat ich.

You go to the pet store and you happen to pick up a fish that was exposed to another fish that went 20 weeks and was still not erradicated... whats gonna happen?
 
BeanAnimal said:
James,

I know a guy who has not worn a seatbelt for 25 years and has not been hurt in 2 accidents. Does that equate to sound logic that seatbelts are too much trouble. Be careful how you apply observations to logical conclusions...

Is there are risk to not using a QT setup... sure. Is your tank doomed if you don't? Who knows, but the chances are higher than if you don't QT. You can assign value any way you see fit based on your own goals and perspective. If you feel a QT is a waste of time, then don't use one :)
Click to expand...

Accidents don't evolve
 
jamesbaur13 said:
You're right, it doesn't. My point is you can't eradicate it.
Click to expand...

If certainly would never wish a Staph infection upon you or anyone, but I chuckle at the thought of you explaining to the doctor that you don't want the antibiotics becuase the mythbusters proved to you that Staph was a farce...

This entire conversation lacks meaningful context and as I figured was going to head nowhere quickly :)
 
jamesbaur13 said:
Exactly my point swcc. I'm sure if you did see a blow-up you'd be able to pin it to some environmental factor as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, as a matter of fact...of the few fish I had get ick..it was tanks without a UV...never once seen ick in my tanks I run or have ran with UV. Not sure why, after all UV supposedly does not kill ick at the flow per gal I run them... yet I don't experience it. I would have to assume that the UV provides a better environment for less stress on the fish. Only way I can see it. I don't quarantine my fish either. Never have. I do pick my fish out locally and choose good healthy fish that are eating well and not just in off the truck.
 
Since the original poster of his thread mixes human with fish diseases in his/her discussion it is important to differentiate the two. Ick can be deadly and many papers have discussed its pathogenesis well in closed systems. I do not mean to add to this discussion. However, I hope to separate this from Staphlococcus which is quite dissimilar and not to be confused with Ick by the neophyte. Staph infections in humans can be eradicated with antibiotics, topical intranasal therapy, and avoidance. Certainly different from Ick. I think it is important to carefully distinguish Ick from human disease and not carelessly compare human infections to marine ones when the etiologies and treatments are quite dissimilar. This only adds confusion to the uninitiated.
 
jamesbaur13 said:
Lets say you're 1 of the unlucky 5 out of 1000 that goes fallow and is unsuccessful. You stay in the hobby. You go 10 weeks. You go 12 weeks. You go 16 weeks and finally you manage to beat ich.

You go to the pet store and you happen to pick up a fish that was exposed to another fish that went 20 weeks and was still not erradicated... whats gonna happen?
Click to expand...

Why is it so difficult to quarantine if you are concerned with Ich? Tank transfer followed by a few weeks of observation and you are good to go. 72 days in a fishless tank for anything that could carry cysts such as corals and rock. It's fine if you don't want to but you make it sound as though Ich is unavoidable. It's not.
 
jamesbaur13 said:
Lets say you're 1 of the unlucky 5 out of 1000 that goes fallow and is unsuccessful. You stay in the hobby. You go 10 weeks. You go 12 weeks. You go 16 weeks and finally you manage to beat ich.

You go to the pet store and you happen to pick up a fish that was exposed to another fish that went 20 weeks and was still not erradicated... whats gonna happen?
Click to expand...

First, I'd say you didn't go fallow long enough, or didn't QT corals, etc before you added them to your fallow tank.

As for the second question: Ich will happen. Because you personally did not QT that new fish.
 
BeanAnimal said:
If certainly would never wish a Staph infection upon you or anyone, but I chuckle at the thought of you explaining to the doctor that you don't want the antibiotics becuase the mythbusters proved to you that Staph was a farce...

This entire conversation lacks meaningful context and as I figured was going to head nowhere quickly :)
Click to expand...

I didn't read that from my posts.

Here's where your argument is going wrong, you keep getting caught up in my analogy, it's an analogy. It's meant to represent my point, not be my point.
 
jerpa said:
Why is it so difficult to quarantine if you are concerned with Ich? Tank transfer followed by a few weeks of observation and you are good to go. 72 days in a fishless tank for anything that could carry cysts such as corals and rock. It's fine if you don't want to but you make it sound as though Ich is unavoidable. It's not.
Click to expand...

It's an organism, it evolves like anything else. 72 days is not the be all end all no more ich solution.
 
By QT livestock we are simply taking precautions to protect our tanks from potential issues. Myself and I would venture many of us do this every day in our lives whether we are aware or not. I put my seatbelt on as a precaution, I rinse off produce as a precaution. I really have a hard time believing that something that can kill our fish is a farce. I would suppose by your logic we should not immunize our children they can fight off whatever they have and if not oh well.
 
I been on this forum long enough to know there are some strains of Ich which are resistant to hypo. I have also heard the same of copper.

Tank transfer coupled with prazi-pro is quickly becoming the new protocol for newly purchased fish.

Why do you think there are strains that are resistant to hypo and copper?

Isn't Ich capable (in rare cases) of completing it's life cycle on the fish... never having to attach to the substrate? If that is the case, what are we re-enforcing with tank transfer?


The Ich-pocalypse is coming. If you shred up vampires mixed with garlic and selcon your fish might survive.
 
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I am no longer participating in this converstaion (I find it rather farcical), but I will tell you that most folks don't care to participate in conversations where one sided rhetorical questions are bounced off of them one after the next... I wonder if that Ich will ever evolve into a chicken... or is that an egg?
 
gone fishin said:
By QT livestock we are simply taking precautions to protect our tanks from potential issues. Myself and I would venture many of us do this every day in our lives whether we are aware or not. I put my seatbelt on as a precaution, I rinse off produce as a precaution. I really have a hard time believing that something that can kill our fish is a farce. I would suppose by your logic we should not immunize our children they can fight off whatever they have and if not oh well.
Click to expand...

I understand your concerns completely. Also realize your terminology. You can not immunize your fish from Ich, nor can you immunize your children from the cold virus. We have "treatments" which are 99.5% effective for ich. If you are thinking the .5% will never come back to you, you are incorrect. Statistically, if you play in the game for a long enough time it will come back to you.

Ich by itself does not kill fish. Only when aided by another element does this happen.
 
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