ich and hypo

[Carbone]

Hello,
I have read here on RC that the hypo is the safest way to get rid of ich, so I removed all my fish from the display and put them on QT, slowly
adjusting the SG to 1.009. After 3 weeks of quarantine, the hepatus has withe sports (appeared a few days ago). It is something normal in the cycle of the QT or I will not get rid of ich after 6 weeks ?
I have read that the SG should be 1.009 (higher will not kill the parasite), but on some post on WWM (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hyposalandcrypt.htm) they are recomanding a SG not lower that 1.018 .

Can someoane share his experience with hypo ?

thanks,
Cristi

 

[bertoni]

Marine ich requires 6-8 weeks of hyposalinity for a cure. 1.018 likely isn't low enough to kill the parasite. You could consider dosing with copper if the strain of ich in your system doesn't respond to hyposalinity, which seems to happen, although very rarely.

 

[atvdave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11600583#post11600583 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
Marine ich requires 6-8 weeks of hyposalinity for a cure. 1.018 likely isn't low enough to kill the parasite. You could consider dosing with copper if the strain of ich in your system doesn't respond to hyposalinity, which seems to happen, although very rarely.

What would be some good cooper ick meds out there to use on a QT tank?

 

[bertoni]

I think Cupramine is one of the more commonly-used medications. It has a couple of nice properties.

 

[stingythingy45]

I had ich break out on my clownfish after almost 4 weeks in hypo.
I'm not ready to give up on hypo yet,even though i'm a bit frustrated.I'm beginning to think it's quite common to have a breakout while in hypo.After all the whole plan is to catch the ich at it's vunerable point while in hypne thing that has to be watched carefully is that you don't cross contaminate.I'll be hitting the 5 week mark tomorrow.I plan to go the full 8 weeks,but if there's a break out next week for some reason I might consider cupramine as a last resort.

 

[Norward]

I recently tried hypo in QT for ich and didn't get low enough. 1.018 does not get the job done! 1.009 IS the recommended standard, but I decided after losing one of my two fish to treat the other with Coppersafe. So far, all looks good after two weeks. I plan to go another two weeks before moving my firefish to the DT. Good luck.

 

[tmz]

I have used copper sulfate( Sea Cure) for some time with successes. I . decided to try hypo. After 6 weeks I began to adjust the salinity upward over the course of a week and when it hit 1.021 the ich reappeared. Resistant strain, perhaps,or some late" hatching" cysts perhaps. These can remain viable for 72 days.

All in all for me with carefull dosing and testing copper sulfate is extremely effective and the course of treatment is two weeks. Even if the fish is then ovserved for another few weeks the quarantine stay is less than hypo. I also know the copper will kill any amyloodinium that mat be lurking.

 

[Lotus99]

I had ich (or at least it looked like ich) that persisted for me at hypo of 1.009. I began raising salinity and treated with CopperSafe, which got rid of the ich. Make sure you have no substrate or rock in the QT and test for copper while treating.

I kept the fish in quarantine a further 4 weeks after all ich had gone, just to be on the safe side. Once any disease is cured in quarantine, you need to "reset" the quarantine back to day one again.

 

[ahullsb]

I ran hypo for 8 weeks while letting the display go fallow. I haven't seen ich in over a year now.

 

[Carbone]

If i decide to go with Copper treatment, I must do 6-8weeks also ?

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11603556#post11603556 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Carbone
If i decide to go with Copper treatment, I must do 6-8weeks also ?

Don't give up on the Hypo treatment. It is common for a second and much less severe outbreak to occur during the treatment process...these will 99.9% of the time get eliminated during the 6 week QT process. Also, the 6 weeks start after the last sign of Ich disappears from the fish.

The salinity must be at 1.009 to work...anything higher and you stand a good chance of failing. Also, make absolutely sure your salinity is measured accurately. Use a refractometer and be sure to calibrate using a good standard solution like the Pinpoint 53mS solution. If you have not accurately measured salinity your levels might be too high to kill the parasite. Do not let the LFS check for you unless they use a good standard for calibration (RO/DI or Distilled water will give you false readings for calibration).

Lastly...if you give up and try copper do not do it in conjunction with Hypo (this can be deadly to the fish).

 

[tmz]

If you go with copper the treatment timeframe is 2 weeks and then you need at least another 2 to 4 weeks symptom free without medication in quarantine.

Neptune 777, Why is copper in hypo deadly to fish? Does it become more toxic? Is this insight based on an experience or a refeerence, I can read.

 

[stingythingy45]

Yes,i've heard that copper is more toxic in a hyposalinity enviroment also.
I've had my QT tank at 1.009 SG for 4 weeks now.
After this break out at the 3 1/2 week mark I waited till the spots were gone.It was a very minor infection.The male clown had about 5 spots on him.Then did a water change and vacuumed the bare bottom really good.Also cleaned off the PVC used for hiding places in the tank..........fingers crossed.

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11605150#post11605150 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stingythingy45
Yes,i've heard that copper is more toxic in a hyposalinity enviroment also.
I've had my QT tank at 1.009 SG for 4 weeks now.
After this break out at the 3 1/2 week mark I waited till the spots were gone.It was a very minor infection.The male clown had about 5 spots on him.Then did a water change and vacuumed the bare bottom really good.Also cleaned off the PVC used for hiding places in the tank..........fingers crossed.

I would bet that you are home free now....just need to wait the required time period. Good Luck!

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11604818#post11604818 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
If you go with copper the treatment timeframe is 2 weeks and then you need at least another 2 to 4 weeks symptom free without medication in quarantine.

Neptune 777, Why is copper in hypo deadly to fish? Does it become more toxic? Is this insight based on an experience or a refeerence, I can read.

Yes I believe it becomes more toxic and the actual copper levels are harder to control.

 

[bertoni]

I think it's the combined stress of hyposalinity and copper that's part of the issue. Copper is less toxic to fish than to marine ich, but it's still toxic.

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11606964#post11606964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
I think it's the combined stress of hyposalinity and copper that's part of the issue. Copper is less toxic to fish than to marine ich, but it's still toxic.

Yes, I undrstand that aspect and agree but chemically does copper become more toxic in lower salinity? Does it make a difference if its chelated or plain copper sulfate? Suppose hyposalinity isn't working and the infestation is worsening or perhaps amlyoodinium shows up, is it best to raise the salinity or to begin treatment with copper? If copper which type would be best?Thanks

 

[bertoni]

I thought the copper sulfate was the most toxic, but I don't know for sure. You might want to ask in the chemistry forum, where there are more experts.

 

[tmz]

Ok I'll do that. The reason I'm asking is because I'm stocking a new tank and will be qting a few fish at a time over the next 6months or so. I'm trying to double check my protocols and know my options when I have to treat. As for the copper sulfate it seems to be the easiest one to test reliably.