Ich and temperature of fallow tank

Keep in mind that the higher the temperature, the lower the dissolved oxygen in the water. Fish with infected gills have difficulty respiring (hence the labored or excessive breathing) so higher temperature will exacerbate this problem. I do not recommend it and I do not believe that cryptocaryon irritans will die at 93 F.
 
I have not kept fresh water for more than 50 years, but my recollection is that the fresh water equivalent (ichthyophthirius multifiliis) dies at 86 F or at least the life cycle is accelerated at that temperature. As far as I know there is no peer reviewed marine biology published work that indicates that the salt water version, cryptocaryon irritans, has mortality at a given temperature or that the life cycle speed is increased. But if a reference can be supplied to a peer reviewed work, I will happily read it and report back.
 
Hyperthermia

Hyperthermia

AQD_ottawa said:
but will fish survive 93F?
Click to expand...

Some can survive 93 if the water is well areated and they in good condition I did it only once and the fish [damsels] cured.Not suggesting it as a treatment I would not reccomend exposing the fish, rather raise the temps during the fallow period in a fish only system.
 
As I read different threads in this fish disease forum I realize that people have been lead to belive that if you apply a certain prescribed treament that it will work. Thus we have both opponents and proponents of hypo , copper etc.The reality of veterinary medicine is that each case is a individual situation. while it has been demonstrated that hypo ,copper and other meds or a combination of therapies work. The case is complicated by the various strains of parasites,The many different species of fish we keep and then the unknown origin, collecton method, drugs,and meds that the fish has been exposed to.
The other variable is how will a certain fish withstand hyopo and then how much hypo and or time is lethal to that fish.Yes WE HAVE EXPERIENCE and know that some fish are more tolerant than others.
So at best we are left with a workable knowlege but not a prescription. As I have pointed out if a fish is in 1.020 in the lfs placing the fish abrubtly in 1015 will kill many parasites on the fish that have not yet embedded deeply into the skin.Copperpower is my choice since it is chealated and less toxic to fish. Inspite of the research which was preformed over and over again in the same tank and with that strain of ick. Raising the water temps to 86 will cause the parasite[strain dependent] to metamorph to the next stage . My POINT HERE IS THAT SINCE WE HAVE TO MANY VARIBLES we need multi pronged treatment plan AND NOT PUSH FISH TO THE EXTREMES and stress them even more
Dr.Pat L DVM
 
DrPat said:
As I read different threads in this fish disease forum I realize that people have been lead to belive that if you apply a certain prescribed treament that it will work. Thus we have both opponents and proponents of hypo , copper etc.The reality of veterinary medicine is that each case is a individual situation. while it has been demonstrated that hypo ,copper and other meds or a combination of therapies work. The case is complicated by the various strains of parasites,The many different species of fish we keep and then the unknown origin, collecton method, drugs,and meds that the fish has been exposed to.
The other variable is how will a certain fish withstand hyopo and then how much hypo and or time is lethal to that fish.Yes WE HAVE EXPERIENCE and know that some fish are more tolerant than others.
So at best we are left with a workable knowlege but not a prescription. As I have pointed out if a fish is in 1.020 in the lfs placing the fish abrubtly in 1015 will kill many parasites on the fish that have not yet embedded deeply into the skin.Copperpower is my choice since it is chealated and less toxic to fish. Inspite of the research which was preformed over and over again in the same tank and with that strain of ick. Raising the water temps to 86 will cause the parasite[strain dependent] to metamorph to the next stage . My POINT HERE IS THAT SINCE WE HAVE TO MANY VARIBLES we need multi pronged treatment plan AND NOT PUSH FISH TO THE EXTREMES and stress them even more
Dr.Pat L DVM
Click to expand...

Please provide peer reviewed citations for your assertions. Thanks.
 
It sounds like you had a velvet outbreak to me. It killed way too fast to be ich IMO. If your fish get to the point where they are struggling breathing FW dips will help relieve some of the parasite by dislodging them. Also I have read studies on formalin being very effective at dislodging the parasites out of the gills, but formal doesn't kill the parasite it just knocks it off! So if you get ready to put it back in the tank be sure to rinse the fish in another container of water. I would use copper alone if the fish are doing well. My guess is those two guys had some natural immunity that allowed them to fight off death from the parasite. Which is great, but at the same time a haunting... Just because a fish has immunity doesn't mean it isn't infected ;) The number of velvet parasites on the gills just wouldn't be as high. Which is bad because if you don't do a correct copper treatment then the fish could still be infected! A good reason for getting the fish to QT would allow the parasite to blow up in huge numbers and would eventually infest the fish.

Also, from what I have read.. Getting rid of ich out of a tank you should keep things the way they were. Keep your salinity the same and the temperature whatever it was at. I think when you start messing with those parameters is when you drive the parasite into a delayed reaction. 10 weeks fallow with no additions of anything. Live rock, corals inverts etc should eradicate your tank of Ich. Velvet I believe is only 6 weeks fallow, but you should get a double check from someone else on that!
 
snake42490 said:
It sounds like you had a velvet outbreak to me. It killed way too fast to be ich IMO. If your fish get to the point where they are struggling breathing FW dips will help relieve some of the parasite by dislodging them. Also I have read studies on formalin being very effective at dislodging the parasites out of the gills, but formal doesn't kill the parasite it just knocks it off! So if you get ready to put it back in the tank be sure to rinse the fish in another container of water. I would use copper alone if the fish are doing well. My guess is those two guys had some natural immunity that allowed them to fight off death from the parasite. Which is great, but at the same time a haunting... Just because a fish has immunity doesn't mean it isn't infected ;) The number of velvet parasites on the gills just wouldn't be as high. Which is bad because if you don't do a correct copper treatment then the fish could still be infected! A good reason for getting the fish to QT would allow the parasite to blow up in huge numbers and would eventually infest the fish.

Also, from what I have read.. Getting rid of ich out of a tank you should keep things the way they were. Keep your salinity the same and the temperature whatever it was at. I think when you start messing with those parameters is when you drive the parasite into a delayed reaction. 10 weeks fallow with no additions of anything. Live rock, corals inverts etc should eradicate your tank of Ich. Velvet I believe is only 6 weeks fallow, but you should get a double check from someone else on that!
Click to expand...

I agree. Well said, and yes, the fallow period for Velvet is six weeks.
 
HumbleFish said:
In your experience, how long can it take for visible symptoms of Velvet to start showing?
Click to expand...

In my experience only (no reference provided and no time to get on Google scholar), behaviorally about a week after acquisition (Mitratus butterfly), physically three to four days after that, dead in about 9 days total.
 
snorvich said:
In my experience only (no reference provided and no time to get on Google scholar), behaviorally about a week after acquisition (Mitratus butterfly), physically three to four days after that, dead in about 9 days total.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
heat sanitize question

heat sanitize question

Hello Snorvich
I have a question for you. Let's say I have a display and some how Marine ich got into it (I did tank transfer method but still somehow the PBT carried it after I out it in the display). I removed all the fish from the display. There are only two things in the display. Newly introduced dry rocks and saltwater. So here is the million dollar question. Can I sanitize the display with the high temperature? let's say 50 C. will all the cysts die with this method? let's say I keep it at 50 C for a day so that all substrate and rocks also reach 50 C (not just the water), will this destroy all the cysts. I'm not worried about the bacteria death in the rocks at this point because I can start the cycle again. waiting for 3 months fishless in display is just too much. It is 1/4th of a yr right?
 
Cysts exposed for at least one hour to temperatures of 40°C or above will die.

Heat is actually the most reliable way to kill ich as it denatures the proteins inside the tomites.
 
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