Ich during QT on Regal Angel

[Khazmodain]

I've had a regal angel in QT for a little over 2 weeks and have been prophetically treating with CP for 13 days. The fish had zero signs of any issues but I know the LFS he came from runs their tanks at a fairly low salinity with low levels of copper so things could have been masked/suppressed. My QT routine includes chloroquine phosphate at a dosage of 15mg/L (if I noticed something on a fish that came in I would go with 20mg/L).

Last night I noticed small white spots appear on the pectoral and tail fins which certainly look like ich to me. I would have expected the CP to take care of ich but I'm not sure if there's a possible ich life cycle issue that I just need to be patient with. I've always had a hard time following the ich life cycle so hopefully someone with the current knowledge of this parasite can chime in (I swear it is constantly changing).

The regal angel otherwise appears in good health and is eating like a pig. I'm wondering if I should stay the course, do large WCs and bring CP up to 20mg/L, or switch to something like quinine sulfate. I would prefer to avoid doing dips, copper, hypo, or TTM if possible.

 

[Dmorty217]

Nogas book suggests treating CP every 5 days for a minimum of 4 treatments. If a active infection is present then 50mg/g is recommended

 

[Khazmodain]

Nogas book suggests treating CP every 5 days for a minimum of 4 treatments. If a active infection is present then 50mg/g is recommended

Interesting, so a lower dose but it calls for recurrent treatments. Seems like most of the guidelines say it's a one and done treatment.

 

[Dmorty217]

I have talked with several curators of Aquariums/zoos about CP and they all have told me that CP is very forgiving as far as medications go. Nogas book also suggests treating CP in addition to hypo. I have used CP at 60mg/g for all fish I get with no negative outcomes. Wrasse, seahorses and pipefish don't do well in CP. Fish can handle up to 80mg/g and I have to believe that is on the low side. Depending on where you got your CP from, it may take more than one treatment. Chinese CP is like everything else from there, not reliable for the most part

 

[Khazmodain]

My CP is from Fishman Chemical which it sounds like there may be conflicting reports as to whether or not it originated from China. I'm just hesitant to redose every 5 days with no way of knowing how much is still active... especially since that seems to contradict the majority of the treatment guidelines suggesting it's one and done.

 

[ThRoewer]

I found hyposalinity on its own effective enough against ich. 2 weeks is all that's needed. I treated several regal angels that way without any issues.

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[Khazmodain]

I found hyposalinity on its own effective enough against ich. 2 weeks is all that's needed. I treated several regal angels that way without any issues.

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I've never done hypo and had heard that hypo resistant ich strains are becoming more common so I was hoping to avoid this route. However, it may be worth a shot combined with another round of CP. Do you advocate dropping salinity down to 12 ppt fairly quickly and then hold it there for two weeks prior to slowly rising (2 ppt per day)? I have soda ash (sodium carbonate) on hand to adjust pH if necessary.

 

[ThRoewer]

Yes, I just drip the fish in to the therapeutic hyposalinity level (1.009), leave them there for at least 2 weeks (I've had some at that level for months) and then raise it slowly to 1.016. From that point on you can go faster up.

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[SBV]

Yes, I just drip the fish in to the therapeutic hyposalinity level (1.009), leave them there for at least 2 weeks (I've had some at that level for months) and then raise it slowly to 1.016. From that point on you can go faster up.

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This is my exact method. Rock solid imo. I run my display at 1.017 and have so for years. Combine that with a 25 watt Aqua Uv on my 80 gal tank and its been a great ride. I'm 4+ years without a hint of ick in my display. Good thing about hypo is there is no testing other than salinity and no harsh chemicals you are putting your fish through. If a fish can survive 2 weeks of hypo, you good to go.

 

[Dmorty217]

My CP is from Fishman Chemical which it sounds like there may be conflicting reports as to whether or not it originated from China. I'm just hesitant to redose every 5 days with no way of knowing how much is still active... especially since that seems to contradict the majority of the treatment guidelines suggesting it's one and done.

I purchased 1000g from fishman and have treated my DT along with hypo every 5 days for 5 treatments total and never did a water change and everything in the tank acted as if nothing was present. I was dosing 40g of CP at a time too. I promise you that CP is VERY forgiving. Again I never did a water change in between dosing and dosed 200g of CP over that time. Im pretty sure fishmans is of chinese origin

 

[Khazmodain]

Yes, I just drip the fish in to the therapeutic hyposalinity level (1.009), leave them there for at least 2 weeks (I've had some at that level for months) and then raise it slowly to 1.016. From that point on you can go faster up.

Great, thanks for the info! I got the treatment tank down to 21 ppt from 35 ppt last night. I'll try to go the rest of the way to 12 ppt today.

This is my exact method. Rock solid imo. I run my display at 1.017 and have so for years. Combine that with a 25 watt Aqua Uv on my 80 gal tank and its been a great ride. I'm 4+ years without a hint of ick in my display. Good thing about hypo is there is no testing other than salinity and no harsh chemicals you are putting your fish through. If a fish can survive 2 weeks of hypo, you good to go.

Good to know. Is this a FOWLR display? I wouldn't think corals or inverts would appreciate such low salinity.

I purchased 1000g from fishman and have treated my DT along with hypo every 5 days for 5 treatments total and never did a water change and everything in the tank acted as if nothing was present. I was dosing 40g of CP at a time too. I promise you that CP is VERY forgiving. Again I never did a water change in between dosing and dosed 200g of CP over that time. Im pretty sure fishmans is of chinese origin

This is very helpful. I assume when you're saying 40g and 200g above you're referring to mg/gallon?


Thanks everyone!

 

[ThRoewer]

I've also just dropped the salinity of the whole tank (after removing inverts and algae) to hyposalinity by doing a large water change with RO water.
I did that with the tank where I have my blue spot jawfish pair in, simply because it was the least invasive way to clean them up. They handled it just fine.

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[SBV]

Yes fowlr. My signature is not correct. 80 gallon deep blue with a 40 breeder as my sump.

 

[Dmorty217]

Great, thanks for the info! I got the treatment tank down to 21 ppt from 35 ppt last night. I'll try to go the rest of the way to 12 ppt today.




Good to know. Is this a FOWLR display? I wouldn't think corals or inverts would appreciate such low salinity.



This is very helpful. I assume when you're saying 40g and 200g above you're referring to mg/gallon?


Thanks everyone!

No i meant 40 grams at a time in 700g of water total, actually to be exact I dosed 42 grams each time. That breaks down to 60mg/gallon

 

[Dmorty217]

I've also just dropped the salinity of the whole tank (after removing inverts and algae) to hyposalinity by doing a large water change with RO water.
I did that with the tank where I have my blue spot jawfish pair in, simply because it was the least invasive way to clean them up. They handled it just fine.

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+1 I did the same over 2 days because it was difficult to get to hypo in 1 day with my water volume

 

[Khazmodain]

When doing hypo do you calibrate your refractometer using RO instead of 35 ppt calibration solution? I'm reading 10-11 ppt when calibrated off of 35 ppt solution and reading 15 ppt when calibrated off of RO. Or should I do something like take a 2/3 and 1/3 weight of these and call it about 13.5 ppt?

 

[ThRoewer]

Yes, calibrate with RO or distilled water. I actually have a dedicated refractometer for hyposalinity treatment.

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[Khazmodain]

A few days into hypo and the visible signs of crypto have vanished. I'll continue to hold salinity around 12-13 ppt for 2-3 weeks while also doing CP every 5 days.

A few days ago the tail and pectoral fins had quite a few spots. Was able to grab a shot of him offering up a fin for a pic.

 

[SBV]

Glad to here everything is going well.