"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

just b/c you cannot actually notice the ich,,is by no means 100% guarantee it aint there. pretreating is added diligence. [/B][/QUOTE]

IMO, pretreating with copper is too harsh... hypo would be a better choice... If you dont have the time to constantly monitor the copper to keep the levels correct and effective/less than lethal you can damage or kill the fish easily
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7036998#post7036998 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poknsnok

IMO, pretreating with copper is too harsh... hypo would be a better choice... If you dont have the time to constantly monitor the copper to keep the levels correct and effective/less than lethal you can damage or kill the fish easily

quoted me out of context..my method would be:
to pre-treat with hypo, with possibly a 1/4 dosage of copper.
not full copper unmonitored at deadly dosages. please.:rolleyes:
 
do you think that 1/4 dose of copper will do any good at all?? I dont think a 25% copper dose will kill the parasite

sorry for the out of context quote, didnt intend that,
maybe we should start a poll, Im curious to know how many hobbyists as a rule, pretreat during the qt process. That is to subject the new arrivals with either a hypo process or a diluted or full strength chemical treatment.
 
Somewhere a few pages back is information posted by guyguerra from Seachem, the makers of Cupramine, and what they state about therapeutic levels of their product.
 
I'll reword this. I have to move my present fish to QT and treat with Cupramine or Hypro as they have ich from the Coral Beautys. I am currently seeding some sponge in the main tank. I have found a LFS that treats their fish with Cupramine on arrival and they currently have it in their tanks (don't know what dosage). When I am finished with QT ( I'm going to do 6 weeks) and ready to add stock, I don't have to worry about treating the fish as they have already been treated at the FFS but will still put them in QT
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7043335#post7043335 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poknsnok
do you think that 1/4 dose of copper will do any good at all?? I dont think a 25% copper dose will kill the parasite

sorry for the out of context quote, didnt intend that,
maybe we should start a poll, Im curious to know how many hobbyists as a rule, pretreat during the qt process. That is to subject the new arrivals with either a hypo process or a diluted or full strength chemical treatment.

like guitar mentioned..Seachem has disclosed information regarding therapeutic dosages of their cupramine copper. i believe copper in general is effective at much lower dosages than what is indicated. the manufacturers state a dosage that is higher than an effective amount and lower than what is lethal to fish.

i believe there are some large public aquariums that treat all incoming livestock with hypo and at least one of them has reported great success with that pretreatment method.
 
I would add media (like ceramic or a biowheel) to the main tank for seeding. Don't underestimate the biological filtration needed for QT like I did the first time. Also, remember it takes several weeks to seed. Bio-spira marine is also an option if you need something quick (in the refridgerated section of large fish shops).
 
Post Hypo Update

Hypo was done for 5 weeks.

2/14 - hypo at 1.009
3/21 - began raising the sg
3/24 - sg at 1.020

cannot make any determinations yet..there was 1 strange looking super bright white round speck on my angel. it was there for 2 days and now is gone. not sure if it was ich or what.
i hope the f not..but see what transpires over the next couple weeks.
all fish came out of hypo without noticeable problems.
 
Hi Everyone. I have been out of the loop since I bought a digital SLR camera 2 weeks ago. Another hobby, another story. Anyway, I read the post about no sick fish results and it is typical of almost every post I've read about it. I don't know why my 50 gallon cleared up, but they are still doing well. I am using it in my 230, as a precaution. I've seen a few spots on my clowns and Copperband, but very few. All fish are acting fine. I'm glad I have a healthy Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse and three cleaner shrimp to help. I laughed one morning with my wife, saying I should use a ritual I do at the craps table each time I put the drops in. I was so diligent for so long, but it became overwhelming to try to build a display as big as mine and QT everything. It is truly impossible. On the otherhand, if you've seen my gallery, you can see how beautiful the tank has become. You can introduce Ich from anything, including when you buy pods, macro algae, mud, sand, on and on. I do think I ran Ich free for a long time, and I believe my tank will be fine because it is so well balanced. I don't know if NSF works, I highly doubt it, but somehow my 50 gallon settled down by using it and garlic, and I've been talking against the Voodo of garlic for a long time. Seachem says their Cupramine is therapeutic at .2, so that might be a good place to start if you feel you must treat, but I've lost fish to that and hypo. It's a tough call to treat a fish that doesn't show symptoms. Even though I've seen Ich in my display, I'll still QT what I put in it, as it is the best prevention out there. Hope everyone is well,
Guy
 
I brought home a Lubbosk's wrasse tonight, acclimated him in the QT. After a couple days I plan to do Cupramine.
 
how do you add new fish into a system that has or has had ich?/ seems like a death sentece or at the very least a real rough time for the fish. I lost my regal tang (dory of course) when I added fish w/out qting. I would like to someday add another or a Purple Tang. seems like even after I qt the fish and even after my tank has settled down, the new fish is going to pick up ick from my tank that has been exposed
 
pok - the only way to clean the whole system is to do what I've had to do twice, and hopefully never again...

- Remove all fish from display and put in QT.
- Treat all fish in QT with hypo (what I used at the time), or copper
- Leave display tank fallow (fishless) for 30-40 days.

At the conclusion of this process, both the display and the fish will be as clean as a whistle. Now put 'em back in the display, and make sure you never add anything wet (snails, rock, macroalgae, and of course fish) to your display again without QT'ing first.

Not pleasant.
 
nope.. not pleasant at all... but it will be done eventually... Ill bet I lose more fish during qt/hypo. than not treating at all. the price of an ick free tank
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7058208#post7058208 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poknsnok
how do you add new fish into a system that has or has had ich?/

like what guitar mentioned..however, if you're going to fallow you mind as well extend that period to 8 weeks.
6 weeks - little short
7 weeks - s/b ok but...
8 weeks - close to eradicated as you are probably going to get

ya just don't want to be short and have to ...begin again.
 
Post Hypo Update
week 2

Hypo was done for 5 weeks.

3/21 - began raising the sg
3/24 - sg at 1.020
4/3 - nothing conclusive yet

fingers still crossed.
 
so you did hypo on the sick fish and left the tank fishless for more than 8 weeks and still had an ick problem? Im getting ready to remove and treat for 8 weeks or more to eradicate from display.

yes Im lazy, i havent gone back and checked the thread
 
yup..left tank fallow for 8 weeks..must have added something with the ich still on it.. either fish or coral. i had issues with treating the fish with hypo at first...i just had too many things going on..was running 4 qtanks at once..it was mayhem.

also treated them with copper after the hypo as well...
 
Triggerfish, are your fish dying from Ich? The reason I ask is that I know I've had Ich in both tanks now, yet the fish did well, and I haven't seen a spot on any fish in either tank for long enough that I feel it's under control. You've been dealing with it longer than me, so I am curious what happens to a tank once you've seen Ich. I don't intend to do anything else, since I don't have any realistic options, and hypo/ copper are not possible. My quandary is weather or not to add any more fish, and to decide when or if it's safe to move my Sailfin from my 50 gallon tank to the 230. The 50 gallon had the worst signs of Ich, and I lost several fish. Out of the group that were in the 50 gallon, three survived and are not showing any more sings of the parasite. I have to assume that the parasite is in the tank, as I wasn't able to treat it. I did use No Sick Fish, but I'll never believe that this killed the parasite, yet during the course of treatment the parasite seems to have stopped affecting the fish. My 230 showed a few spots on my clowns and copperband, but just a few spots, and those are now gone also. I used NSF in that tank also.
So here's my dilemma. Eventually the Sailfin will need to be moved to the 230, and I want to add a Blue spot jawfish also. My thoughts are to wait a few more months, then move the Sailfin. In the mean time I am considering adding the Jawfish to the 50 gallon tank, then move him after several months. But during all of this, I have to worry about an Ich breakout. That's the dilemma, and the question that needs to be asked to help decide is weather or not Ich can vanish on it's own.
I used to think I new how to deal with Ich well, but now I have to question everything. All my well thought out plans are out the window. Ich has been seen in both tanks, yet my fish are fine, and the parasite seems to be gone. My prior studying on the subject tells me that it's still there and just waiting to rear it's head. If this is true, how is it surviving. Why isn't it growing in population, since we know that the hatchlings per single parasite are many, and the cycle of hatching is frequent. I am going to deduce that for the parasite to continue to live in my tank it has to live on my fish, yet the population isn't growing, so it seems that most of the hatchlings must not be able to find a host, and die off, leaving just a few to rejuvenate the population. This is a hard concept to believe in. From what I've learned, my tanks should both be showing sings, and those symptoms should be getting worse, yet they clearly are not. I have never been as confused about Ich as I am right now. My tanks look great, everything is thriving, yet I have seen Ich in both tanks.
Very Confusing, Guy
 
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