"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

[guitarfish]

Hey Jimmy,

I cross the border to NY when I go to work, and go to the LFS's over that way. I've never been to any in Scranton, so I can't recommend anything. If you find anything worthwhile though, let me know, because I do get over that way from time to time.

 

[jimmyj7090]

Guitarfish,

I haven't been able to find anything around scranton yet, is there anything worth visiting on the way back to Ma? We'll be driving 89.

 

[Triggerfish]

<h3>Post Hypo Update</h3>
week 4
Looking good!!

Hypo was done for 5 weeks.

3/21 - began raising the sg
3/24 - sg at 1.020
4/17 - nothing conclusive yet

well,,4 weeks and things are looking pretty darn good. i'm still not certain,,but i don't thnk the 1-2 spots i noticed was ich.

thinking 4 weeks may be a decent amount of time for this thing to reappear. another month to go at least to be more conclusive.

i went ahead and put the tank back together sat the way i want in anticipation that i will not need to remove the inhabitants to fallow tank...2+ hours. tried to get pic, but for some reason they were not coming out in focus even with tripod..wth.

i'm hopefully picking up a sargassum trigger from another hobbyist today.. got the cycled qt to toss em right in. $25,,wow..what a deal, eh.
<hr size=5 noshade>

nice job jk..looks like hypo is showing promising effects on at least 2 situations here...

 

[jimmyj7090]

Hey,

good to hear, and best of luck to both of us.


FWIW, don't repeat the same mistake I made with the new fish.

Set up strong light on the QT, or do so at least temporarily before giving it a clean bill of health. My whole saga started after I intorduced a fish that looked clean in a low light QT but I saw spots instantly once it was under MH (in the display, infecting the rest of the tank)

If you would like, I can loan you a 1x400w mh with 2x96w PC DIY canopy that you could occasionally fire up over your QT for a "bright light examination" of the new fish. (Send me a PM on the BRS board if your interested, I don't always check this thread all that often)

jk

 

[Triggerfish]

400w over the 10g qt.... lmfao...

yeah, that's a valid point that i can attest to the difficulty with observing under low lighting.

the sargassum deal fell through..so nothing going in qt just yet. damn..figured it was to good to happen..

 

[jimmyj7090]

What, 592 watts over a 10G overkill???

jk,
I didn't know what size QT you have.

Anyway, if you ever want to borrow 600w of light for a thorough visual exam your welcome to it

 

[Triggerfish]

thanks...however, it will not be needed. i can see perfectly clear under the 175w MH in main tank that some spots seem to have appeared..

this is discouraging. i'm not fretting..just looking at a long fallow period to hopefully take care of the pests once and for all.
i will begin to cycle a 29g and move them in about a month.
not a problem...it's just too bad i had to destroy my reef to attempt hypo... the 'quest' continues.

 

[guyguerra]

Is there anyone reading this thread had any success with No Sick Fish. I used it in my 50 gallon tank and the fish have been clean for more than a month. I used it on my 230 and have not seen another spot. I did a lot of other general stuff, garlic, water changes, UV and Ozone. It's either gone or my fish can tolerate it. I wonder if it's harder for ich to dominate a larger tank. It is something to consider. In a 230 gallon tank the fish can move longer distances, where they are constrained to a smaller area where the parasite can start an infestation easier. Anyway, I think my ich problem has settled down. The guy's from the LFS stopped by two nights ago and agreed with me, so we moved the Sailfin to the larger tank. Some of you know how much effort I put in to having a Sailfin make it thru QT. Heres a picture. He acclimated right away and started eating immediately. I think it's due to the fact that he's been in this house for 2 months, so he's used to the feeding regiment. I NEVER thought I'd get one to live. Here he is:

 

[Triggerfish]

i haven't tried NSF and probably never will unless someone reveals the contents.

 

[guyguerra]

Triggerfish, how are you doing with your fish now? Heres a post I just did on the thread I ran discussing the idea of not treating Ich in a reef tank, or really, not taking the fish out and not doing the hypo or copper treatments. I'll paste it here, and put a link to the thread again. Both of my tanks look perfect, and both had Ich. I am really becoming a believer in getting our tanks balanced, and backing off the harsher treatments, unless the fish are in a QT during the first month or two after acquiring them. Here's the post, and thread link. Take a look at the Sailfin. I FINALLY GOT ONE! She's doing great in the big tank, and helping with the algae nicely.
It has been a month since I saw Ich in my large tank. I used several reef safe treatments, along with vitamins and water changes. I've always done weekly water changes so I just increased the amount of each change. My tank looks great, all the fish are healthy and there hasn't been any Ich spots in over 3 weeks. I am REALLY glad I didn't try taking the fish out. My reef is so well established now that I might have lost enough to consider giving up the hobby. I've been in this hobby for a while now and have learned many things. Since I didn't know what a QT was when I started, I had Ich immediately in my first tank which was a 120 FOWLR. Then I started a 50 gallon QT. I have tried every approach to kill Ich, and prevent Ich. My thoughts about it have changed many times. I've torn a tank down due to ich, I've done hypo, copper, reef safe stuff, and die hard QT practices. At this point I am with the crowd that believes most tanks have it, and that it can be dealt with without taking all your fish out. I'm also a life long believer that fish need to be quarantined before going into a display, and any of the proven treatments at that point are wise. But I would never consider tearing down a reef again because of Ich.
Heres the thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=820064
Oh, what the heck, heres the picture of my sailfin too. I'm kinda proud of this one.

 

[Triggerfish]

my angel has had ich for a year..without treatment it gets very bad.. it is at its worst right now..fish is covered. i removed the fish from tank this weekend and will be treating with copper.

some of the fish in my tank do not seem to be effected in any negative way.
both firefish
LMB
blue gudgeon
and my wrasse seems ok

my coral beauty is covered and my perc scratches against the substrate.

i can't balance a tank loaded with ich and have the fish suffer. i'm not even sure how to go about doing that.. for me,anyway, i have not found that magic potion that others have found to eradicate the parasite.

I'm not interested in any discussion regarding keeping ich alive in a reef tank. it aint working with my asfur angel.

 

[guyguerra]

Triggerfish, I feel terrible for all you've gone thru. I believe it is the worst case I've ever heard of. This was the same condition I had in my original encounter with Ich. How long was your tank healthy before you started your ich treatments. My first tank was hit with Ich in the first group of fish I put in. I agree that now is not the time to consider anything other than proven treatments, either hypo or copper. My current situation is different so my options are different. Mine got so bad and took so long that I finally had to adopt a live or die, I don't care approach, when mine got like yours. I did copper for 8 weeks at a high dose, at least .5 and even had it up to .8 for short duration. It was the only way I finally kicked it. After that the remaining fish (6 out of 12), were moved into my new tank that was started with new stuff from scratch. I thought mine was the worst case until I heard of yours. I was fortunate to start over completely with my next tank because I was in the process of upgrading tanks, but you could completely break down you main tank while the fish go for 8 weeks in copper. I realized that fish die every day, we fish with them, eat them, and kill them in poorly understood fish bowls. I was so fatigued in fighting it that I didn't care any more. I suggest that you consider this. High doses of copper for 8 weeks, then whatever lives gets put back into a completely overhauled system. I still have the six fish that survived! I don't really have a full understanding on your tanks because there has been so much happening, but sticking them in one tank and running copper, then tearing down your display and starting over might finally get you thru it. How long were you ich free and how long have you been fighting it?
Guy

 

[Triggerfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7336146#post7336146 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by guyguerra
How long were you ich free and how long have you been fighting it?

this particular tank has been running for about 6 years, however water was transferred from the tank move and upgrade.

i have only had 1 issue and that was 10 yrs ago when i started out with a 30g.
added an unquarantined coral beauty that had oodinium and wiped out the tank within 4 days.
started over and haven't had an issue until last year. 40lbs of infested LR added.

i however, cannot say i was "ich free" that entire time as i had a hippo tang once that had a few spots on it when tank was a FO. used to maintain a preventive dosage of copper in that system for about a year and never seen anything since then..so basically no sign of ich for about 2.5 years after that. and had a hippo again for a short time until i accidently killed it.

i've been dealing with this current situation since 5/05.

the weird thing is that if i just keep the small resilient fish in there, the blennies, firefish,gobies; i could probably just leave them in and they would be fine. i just really could not add anything else in there.. that isn't going to work for the long term..would the parasite eventually die off? i really have no idea. it has been noted that the strain should eventually die off as the cells age within 10-11 months. however, if you unknowingly add another in then you could be looking at a min of 2 yrs. i'm not experimenting for that long.

my plan i believe, is to get everything out by end of month. i've got the 29g going now with the angel. i'm probably going to leave the main tank fallow for at least 3 months and i probably will not add back the asfur no matter how good it looks.

i've got lots to do anyways as i'm upgrading sump/filtration system and moving it down to the basement. Also want to work on zeroing out my NO3 level.

 

[pecan2phat]

Here's my conclusion on NSF:
In a lightly infected tank with only the minority population exhibiting the initial signs of ick, this product has worked for me in a 55g fowlr tank at work. (two months since 2 consecutive treatment doses and no signs exibited)
In a moderately infected tank (my 120g reef tank at home), the product seemed to supress the parasite to where it seems like it worked but the parasite would rear it's ugly head after 2 to 4 weeks again. (tried this twice with the same result)
In a heavily infected tank (my 90g fowlr at home), the product did not work at all even after 5 consecutive treatments.

I also have the strain from hell in the 90g fowlr tank. Been fighting this since Sept. of '05. Tried everything from garlic, vitamin C, metronidazole & ginger extract laced food, double doses Kick-Ick & Rally administered for 3 treatment doses on two different occasions, No Sick Fish administered for 5 weeks @ 5 consecutive doses to Hyposalinity @ 1.009 for 38 days and 1.007 to 1.008 for 50 days (second time around).

Tank is currently being coppered prior to being torn down if this does not work.

 

[Triggerfish]

lost first fish due to the parasite today.
coral beauty was pretty covered for over a week and i did not want to break tank down to remove the fish. it's possible it could have been prevented if i removed and treated. like i have with the asfur angel.

the 6 fish remaining in tank appear to be holding up well with the parasite in the tank, some show no signs others mild scratching on substrate.
i plan to remove all by end of month.

so here's my experience with leaving fish in an infected reef..some die.

 

[guitarfish]

Hi guys, thought I'd check in. Sorry everyone's still battling.

I brought home a small 2" yellow tang, he's been in QT for 9 days. I'm at 1.011 right now, will hit 1.009 tonight. Anyone ever drop to 1.008? Just wondering. The tang has been "twitchy" from day one, and, sure enough, spots are now visible. No surprise, of course.

So, I plan to do the hypo thing and hope, hope, hope. Thank God my main tank is ich free for almost 2 years now.

 

[Triggerfish]

i've been at 1.008 for a month without a problem. but not with tangs, so not sure what relevance it may have.

 

[guyguerra]

I had a problem in my 50 gallon tank. It's a long story, but the tank overheated. My wife found the fish laying on the bottom of the tank and called me at work saying that all the fish died! I ran home, and saw that two of the three were breathing, more like gasping for air. I pulled them out put them in the fuge of my big tank. I found the third fish under a rock, so I put him in the fuge too. After an hour they revived and were swimming around. The fish are a brown tang, mystery wrasse and clown wrasse. I was going to to put the tang in the 230 when she got a little bigger, so I decided since she was now living in the fuge they might as well stay in the big tank, so today I put all three in the big tank. I haven't seen an ich spot in a long time now, and the Sailfin I added several weeks ago is doing great. If Ich was going to be an ongoing problem, this should be when it is going to happen. I'll let you know next week. I think they'll be fine though. We'll see.

 

[guitarfish]

Another dull day, hey Guy? Wow.

 

[guyguerra]

This hobby is always interesting. But I must say, I love seeing the new additions in the tank. The Mystery wrasse is cool, he loves to swim all thru the rocks, so with all my rocks and corals, hes fun to watch. The Clown wrasse is the one you commented on a while back, and the brown Tang was like the Sailfin to me, a good addition in a reef tank. I checked them all before the lights went out tonight and they look great. For a fish that's been netted, bagged, transferred, been in several small tanks, and junk water, to end up in a 230 gallon reef must feel pretty good! Granted, it's not the ocean, but it is a decent eco system.