"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins
- Thread starter Triggerfish
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Triggerfish
Active member
cduran02 said:
the fish do not appear to be "stressed" at all. well, from what my understanding of stressed would be anyway. unless copper contained within low sg would result in some kind of stress in and of itself, (which i have not found anything on that yet) then i am not concerned at this point.
could you just post the link if possible of the documentation you have regarding this? thanks..
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Triggerfish
Active member
cduran02 said:
besides a lethal dosage,,could you explain in what manner the fish will experience 'stress' like conditions?
i am aware that there could be some long term damaging effects from copper alone like kidney, liver, and beneficial intestinal flora.
cduran02
New member
For each fish it will be different. For example, herbivors have special bacteria in their digestive system that helps them with extracting nutrients from the food they eat. Copper is harmful to all invertibrates (including bacteria). I belive copper also harms the slime coating on fish.
Another thing is that the bio-filter in the tank is weakened which means you will have a rise in ammonia.
Another thing is that the bio-filter in the tank is weakened which means you will have a rise in ammonia.
Triggerfish
Active member
not talking about ammonia poisoning though..just direct primary stress the fish would expect to experience due to the copper medication alone.
although ,,scaleless fish, of which i have one ..puffer,,may be a bit sensitive to the copper..in which way i am not sure..so will need to watch him in particular.
no inverts are being treated for ich in this QT.
although ,,scaleless fish, of which i have one ..puffer,,may be a bit sensitive to the copper..in which way i am not sure..so will need to watch him in particular.
no inverts are being treated for ich in this QT.
Triggerfish
Active member
do not have tangs..sorry..
Triggerfish
Active member
only thing i found so far that could link the possible issue with using the two methods simultaneously is this:
"keeping fish in low salinity means that they don't "flush" their kidneys sufficiently. After long-term exposure, this can cause kidney failure."
linked with:
"Copper can cause serious damage to the kidney of the fish being treated."
i don't know,,sounds like you wouldn't want to use either method for too long,,never mind both at the same time.. hopefully 2 weeks will not cause much issue.. but, if i witness any change in behavior,,i will look to remove as much copper as possible..
Reference:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm
"keeping fish in low salinity means that they don't "flush" their kidneys sufficiently. After long-term exposure, this can cause kidney failure."
linked with:
"Copper can cause serious damage to the kidney of the fish being treated."
i don't know,,sounds like you wouldn't want to use either method for too long,,never mind both at the same time.. hopefully 2 weeks will not cause much issue.. but, if i witness any change in behavior,,i will look to remove as much copper as possible..
Reference:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm
Triggerfish
Active member
side effects - both short term and long term.
even though the fish appear to be fine, i am a bit worried now that the copper could pose some long term effect..and coupled with the hypo,,could not be the best option here..
i think i will carbon out the copper and just lower the sg a bit more..
even though the fish appear to be fine, i am a bit worried now that the copper could pose some long term effect..and coupled with the hypo,,could not be the best option here..
i think i will carbon out the copper and just lower the sg a bit more..
markcasto
New member
Just to mention I did treat my tangs with copper for 7 days before I began the hypo treatment but because I lost 3 other fish I decided to stop using it and just try the hypo salinity. I think that I prefer this method to any others I have tried I dont like using chemicals to treat fish if I can avoid it.
By the way the deltic refractometer is brilliant so if you can get one later on I would do so.I hear you on the cost of salt its about 50.00 pounds for 25kg bucket over here.
By the way the deltic refractometer is brilliant so if you can get one later on I would do so.I hear you on the cost of salt its about 50.00 pounds for 25kg bucket over here.
tjay
Premium Member
Sounds like most of us following Trigger have gotten our QT tanks stabilized. That is most of the battle
fighting the urge to cut the treatment short is now the hardest thing I find to do.
We had planned two other tangs for our main and I am trying to get them into hyposalinity before the cut off and that is fast approaching.
We did add a copperband and a blonde nasso tang to this QT cycle and they are all doing great.
Hypo is holding steady at .09 and the parameters are not perfect but holding with water changes weekly.
tic toc tic toc. just waiting now until mid July when we can put our fish back in.
I am finding working on getting my chemistry in the main tank down to an art a decent way to spend the time. I started dripping kalk.
I had some QTip sponges show up on my rocks this week. I hear that means water quality is good. So hey take the little victories and know that what I am doing is the right thing.
fighting the urge to cut the treatment short is now the hardest thing I find to do.
We had planned two other tangs for our main and I am trying to get them into hyposalinity before the cut off and that is fast approaching.
We did add a copperband and a blonde nasso tang to this QT cycle and they are all doing great.
Hypo is holding steady at .09 and the parameters are not perfect but holding with water changes weekly.
tic toc tic toc. just waiting now until mid July when we can put our fish back in.
I am finding working on getting my chemistry in the main tank down to an art a decent way to spend the time. I started dripping kalk.
I had some QTip sponges show up on my rocks this week. I hear that means water quality is good. So hey take the little victories and know that what I am doing is the right thing.
Triggerfish
Active member
tjay said:
i hear ya on that..i am only on week 2 and it already seems like i never had fish in the tank before..and it may seem like my angel could be delayed another week or so.. the two spots he had earlier had dropped so hopefully the hypo will destroy them when they search again. and that will be the end of it..
i just checked NO3 in main tank and the thing is registering zero for the 1st time in like 9yrs.. however,,i do not really trust the hagen kits i am using.
i am currently looking for a BTA for my maroon..i will put it right in his spot for when he gets back..nice welcome 'home' surprise..hopefully he doesn't tear the thing apart if he takes to it...he is large.
looking to add one more piece to tank..small frag of purple digitata..figured i would give an easier sps a try..
after that,,i am just basically out of money..i am really in need of a 2nd job right now..just can't keep up any longer
I have been fallowing this thread and I am going through the Hypo right now also. I am on day 3 and am currently lowering my salinity. I am curious if anyone is using a skimmer on there tank to help prevent nitrates or ammonia spikes. I do know that you get less results at lower salinity but mine seems to be working so far.
-parks
-parks
tjay
Premium Member
yes I am running a back pack skimmer and it is working great for keeping the paremeters stable. This is a clone built by a local fish shop.
he built in a bio ball chamber and a sponge filter that I have a carbon bag sitting on.
It is not skimming the green gunk that it would on a normal salinity tank but the cup is collecting brownish gunk water.
It was my only option as it was the only other filter mechanism that I had that had been running on a cycled tank.
he built in a bio ball chamber and a sponge filter that I have a carbon bag sitting on.
It is not skimming the green gunk that it would on a normal salinity tank but the cup is collecting brownish gunk water.
It was my only option as it was the only other filter mechanism that I had that had been running on a cycled tank.
markcasto
New member
Money, patience and time sighââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ If only we all had more of it.
Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s only the second week for me two and its going to be a long 5 weeks till the fish go back in the main tank.
I have to buy small bags of salt to keep up with the water changes but at least with this method I am only using half the amount I normally use.
I have not got a skimmer on my QT tank I could put my old sea clone on there I guess but donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t think I will bother as I am doing daily water changes.
Looking back to when I first took all the fish out and I really should have got some ammonia remover first at least two bottles and I should have made up a lot more water. I must have got through over 400ltrs of RO water so far and I am still topping it up.
Still this is all a learning experience and I will be better prepared next time.
Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s only the second week for me two and its going to be a long 5 weeks till the fish go back in the main tank.
I have to buy small bags of salt to keep up with the water changes but at least with this method I am only using half the amount I normally use.
I have not got a skimmer on my QT tank I could put my old sea clone on there I guess but donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t think I will bother as I am doing daily water changes.
Looking back to when I first took all the fish out and I really should have got some ammonia remover first at least two bottles and I should have made up a lot more water. I must have got through over 400ltrs of RO water so far and I am still topping it up.
Still this is all a learning experience and I will be better prepared next time.
Triggerfish
Active member
i only have a spare sump skimmer..and not setting up a sump for this QT nor getting a HOB skimmer.
i guess you could look at it like almost starting over again..remember how excited you were when you finally got finished with your tank cycle and got to add fish..
at least we have reef tanks so there is something going on anyway. if not, i wouldn't even bother turning the lights on for 6 weeks.
week 2 almost complete..
picking up a BTA for maroon tomorrow i think..trading for a colt frag.
btw: i lowered the sg another notch last night. reading 1011. which i am thinking could possibly be +3 off from an accurate reading.
i guess you could look at it like almost starting over again..remember how excited you were when you finally got finished with your tank cycle and got to add fish..
at least we have reef tanks so there is something going on anyway. if not, i wouldn't even bother turning the lights on for 6 weeks.
week 2 almost complete..
picking up a BTA for maroon tomorrow i think..trading for a colt frag.btw: i lowered the sg another notch last night. reading 1011. which i am thinking could possibly be +3 off from an accurate reading.
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