"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins
- Thread starter Triggerfish
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bheron
Active member
Hey Triggerfish, thanks for the feedback. All good points.
***Also, I need to share something with the group since this is the best Ich thread I've found. Now, I'm not sure what this means, and I'm not trying to state any facts here, but something just happened in my tank recently that is worth noting...
A quick background:
About a year ago when my Hippo Tang came down with a small bout of ICH, I started soaking their food in garlic. To my delight, the ICH quickly went away. I've been using garlic ever since and have never had another bout of ich with any fish since.
Now in my new tank, and as mentioned a few weeks ago, this very same Hipppo Tang AGAIN came down with ICH (presumably from some LR from someone elses tank I recently put in). I decided to "ride it out" a bit to see what happened, as long as he didnt get any worse. Well, the past few weeks the disease has NOT receded one bit. And its probably gotten worse, although the Hippo was still eating and not showing any other bad signs.
SO, here's the interesting part: a few days ago, tired from a long day of holiday activities, I didnt have the energy to presoak their food in garlic. So I just dropped the pellets in directly and they ate it up (This is the first time in a long time I havent used the garlic). Well, I couldnt beleive the very next morning when I checked on the fish -- they ICH was 90% gone! A huge improvement in just a few hours! This was probably 3 days ago. And since then the past few days I've been using no garlic and just feeding the food directly.
Today...
....the ICH is gone. :eek1: :eek1: :eek1:
Again. No idea what this means. Probably just coincidence. But thought I'd share it.
***Also, I need to share something with the group since this is the best Ich thread I've found. Now, I'm not sure what this means, and I'm not trying to state any facts here, but something just happened in my tank recently that is worth noting...
A quick background:
About a year ago when my Hippo Tang came down with a small bout of ICH, I started soaking their food in garlic. To my delight, the ICH quickly went away. I've been using garlic ever since and have never had another bout of ich with any fish since.
Now in my new tank, and as mentioned a few weeks ago, this very same Hipppo Tang AGAIN came down with ICH (presumably from some LR from someone elses tank I recently put in). I decided to "ride it out" a bit to see what happened, as long as he didnt get any worse. Well, the past few weeks the disease has NOT receded one bit. And its probably gotten worse, although the Hippo was still eating and not showing any other bad signs.
SO, here's the interesting part: a few days ago, tired from a long day of holiday activities, I didnt have the energy to presoak their food in garlic. So I just dropped the pellets in directly and they ate it up (This is the first time in a long time I havent used the garlic). Well, I couldnt beleive the very next morning when I checked on the fish -- they ICH was 90% gone! A huge improvement in just a few hours! This was probably 3 days ago. And since then the past few days I've been using no garlic and just feeding the food directly.
Today...
....the ICH is gone. :eek1: :eek1: :eek1:
Again. No idea what this means. Probably just coincidence. But thought I'd share it.
WantaBeReefer
New member
This is a little off the beaten path, but if you have a FOWLR w/no corals, no snails/shrimps or any other inverts to worry about can you hypo the main tank. Will it affect the rocks ability to bio filter? How does hypo impact coraline? Thanks
guitarfish
Premium Member
bheron - you realize that the ich cysts call off the fish at a certain point, right? Whether you're feeding garlic, no garlic, or anything else, those spots are going to disappear. They will be back in about 3 weeks time unless the fish are properly treated to kill the ich.
WantaBeReefer - hypo won't harm the rock's ability to be a bio filter. As long as you gradually lower the SG, the biofilter will adjust and survive. However, if the rock was truly "live" rock, and there are tiny life forms in & on it, such as little tube worms, pods, sponge, etc., these will probably die, and you could end up with an ammo spike as a result. And you'll end up with "dead" rock when you're done. I can't answer as to the coraline, maybe someone else knows that one.
WantaBeReefer - hypo won't harm the rock's ability to be a bio filter. As long as you gradually lower the SG, the biofilter will adjust and survive. However, if the rock was truly "live" rock, and there are tiny life forms in & on it, such as little tube worms, pods, sponge, etc., these will probably die, and you could end up with an ammo spike as a result. And you'll end up with "dead" rock when you're done. I can't answer as to the coraline, maybe someone else knows that one.
guyguerra
Premium Member
IMO the only thing garlic does is stink up the house and taste good on italian food. Other than that, there's nothing that factually backs up it's ability to help fish overcome diseases that I've seen yet. The only ones benefitting from it is the people selling this stuff. It made feeding my fish a bigger process and one I didn't look forward to. My hands smelled like garlic most of the day! I agree with plaz's post and will be curious to see what happens in a few days. Please keep us posted. If anyone has seen a published article backing up the use of garlic, I'd be interested in reading it. I've read many that didn't support it, but none that did.
Hippo tangs seem to show Ich and suffer from it more than most fish. I've avoided hippo's after I lost mine to Ich because I consider them a catalyst to increasing the Ich population in a tank. A Kole tang is a nice choice, and will help clean up any algae.
WantaBereefer, you must have a well developed bio system in your tank to have coraline algae in it. I would think that hypo will set that tank back a lot, and if this is your display tank you might be better off in the long run by setting up a separate tank for hypo.
Hippo tangs seem to show Ich and suffer from it more than most fish. I've avoided hippo's after I lost mine to Ich because I consider them a catalyst to increasing the Ich population in a tank. A Kole tang is a nice choice, and will help clean up any algae.
WantaBereefer, you must have a well developed bio system in your tank to have coraline algae in it. I would think that hypo will set that tank back a lot, and if this is your display tank you might be better off in the long run by setting up a separate tank for hypo.
bheron
Active member
guyguera, youre right. the only good articles out there state exactly that - there is no hard factual data or research to support it. and there probably wont. its just a theory supported by alot of people's positive and negative experiences. For me, it seemed to help. Other than the smell and what you described, it cant hurt.
I'll keep an eye and see what happens.
I'll keep an eye and see what happens.
markrovner
Premium Member
Anyone fighting ich should take an hour and read this entire thread. Bottom line is, no one has beaten ich EXCEPT with hypo or copper. Several of the hypo people had recurrences, and as best as I recall none of the copper people have.
I tried a wait-and-see that included garlic, kick-ich (dont waste your money) and water changes. By the time I woke up and put the fish into QT, most were too sick to make it. I lost 6 of 7 fish, the survivor being a remarkable little ocellaris clown, who just completed the cupramine treatment.
My advice from studying this thread and expensive experience, is don't screw around: QT all fish immediately and choose between hypo and cupramine. personally, I am happily on the copper plan.
And I will never ever ever fail to QT a new fish or invert for the full 4 weeks again...
I tried a wait-and-see that included garlic, kick-ich (dont waste your money) and water changes. By the time I woke up and put the fish into QT, most were too sick to make it. I lost 6 of 7 fish, the survivor being a remarkable little ocellaris clown, who just completed the cupramine treatment.
My advice from studying this thread and expensive experience, is don't screw around: QT all fish immediately and choose between hypo and cupramine. personally, I am happily on the copper plan.
And I will never ever ever fail to QT a new fish or invert for the full 4 weeks again...
Triggerfish
Active member
you will find many interesting connotations regarding ich/parasites and garlic interaction.
i believe i have noticed a benefit since using it on my fish that have been living with the parasite feeding off them for the past 8 months. when my clown,wrasse and bluethroat entered the system it became pretty loaded with the ich on most of their body. once they began consuming the garlic food, the parasites seem to basically appear on the very outer fin areas and the eyes. it seems the ich is not choosing the body of the fish to feed from. and the outbreaks do not seem to increase from month to month. odd eh..
anecdotal?..who the hell knows. There has been discussion by some of the "experts" on this forum that have mentioned garlic can be a deterrent to a certain degree.
is this what i may be witnessing? perhaps..however,,i do not have the time to conduct some sort of controlled experiment right now, beyond what i have going on in my main tank.
here is some info regarding part of the subject..i have not read it all.
http://www.geocities.com/horge1218/garlic.html
i will post my update next week, there has been some noticeable changes going on.
i believe i have noticed a benefit since using it on my fish that have been living with the parasite feeding off them for the past 8 months. when my clown,wrasse and bluethroat entered the system it became pretty loaded with the ich on most of their body. once they began consuming the garlic food, the parasites seem to basically appear on the very outer fin areas and the eyes. it seems the ich is not choosing the body of the fish to feed from. and the outbreaks do not seem to increase from month to month. odd eh..
anecdotal?..who the hell knows. There has been discussion by some of the "experts" on this forum that have mentioned garlic can be a deterrent to a certain degree.
is this what i may be witnessing? perhaps..however,,i do not have the time to conduct some sort of controlled experiment right now, beyond what i have going on in my main tank.
here is some info regarding part of the subject..i have not read it all.
http://www.geocities.com/horge1218/garlic.html
i will post my update next week, there has been some noticeable changes going on.
bheron
Active member
this is a fact: my fish came down with ich a year ago in my old tank. i used garlic. the ich went away. never came back (on the fish, that is).
not saying that the ich worked, just saying that I did "beat ich" without QT'ing. My fish were fine for almost a year in that old tank. so, in my mind, I beat it without QT.
not saying that the ich worked, just saying that I did "beat ich" without QT'ing. My fish were fine for almost a year in that old tank. so, in my mind, I beat it without QT.
guitarfish
Premium Member
bheron - you are the exception. I'm really glad for you (and your fish) that your ich is gone. Unfortunately, garlic isn't reliable treatment, as many deceased fish will attest, including some I really liked.
Triggerfish
Active member
i've been using garlic continuously for about 2 months now. the ich is certainly not gone. i believe it has done nothing to kill the ich,,only that it has helped the fish out somehow in dealing with it.
markrovner
Premium Member
But Trigger, I think you'll agree that garlic is no replacement for (1) QTing everything and (2) using an established treatment (hypo or copper) as a measure of first resort.
I only belabor this point because if I had been more aggressive, and less indulgent of my own wishful thinking, there'd be 6 more fish alive today...
I only belabor this point because if I had been more aggressive, and less indulgent of my own wishful thinking, there'd be 6 more fish alive today...
Triggerfish
Active member
never said nor implied it was markrovner. in fact i stated:
"i believe it has done nothing to kill the ich"
"i believe it has done nothing to kill the ich"
markrovner
Premium Member
Not implying you meant otherwise -- just being heavy-handed so that maybe others won't kill fish the way I did.
I actually use garlic too -- the fish clearly love it.
m
I actually use garlic too -- the fish clearly love it.
m
guitarfish
Premium Member
Everytime I use garlic I feel like running off to Red Lobster for one of their all you can eat Shrimp-fests. Seriously, I've eaten garlic pretty regularly my whole life, and I've never come down with ich.
guitarfish
Premium Member
I'll be a son of a gun! Copper pipes! That explains why PVC in the tank doesn't kill ich...
OK folks, sorry.
Here's my update: hypo has failed me, bigtime. My coral beauty has been in hypo for a month, I've monitored the SG with a refractometer regularly. The fish has 20+ spots, they ain't going away. I've never seen anything like this.
This weekend's project: move fishie to bucket; drain tank; remove all crushed coral and rocks; put water and fish back in; add Cupramine.
Yep - we're switching over to copper, folks. Stay tuned.
OK folks, sorry.
Here's my update: hypo has failed me, bigtime. My coral beauty has been in hypo for a month, I've monitored the SG with a refractometer regularly. The fish has 20+ spots, they ain't going away. I've never seen anything like this.
This weekend's project: move fishie to bucket; drain tank; remove all crushed coral and rocks; put water and fish back in; add Cupramine.
Yep - we're switching over to copper, folks. Stay tuned.
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