Ich & Hyposalinity treatment & Ammonia

[quahreef]

I had some new addition's (red sea tang, copper band, blue line angle, swallowtail angle, cowfish) in QT (70 gallon). The QT is seeded with a sponge filter from the main tank and had been running about 3 days before the additions.

The copperband developed ich about 1 week into QT. I'm in the process of lowering the salinity via water removal and allowing my ATO to fill it back up 5 gallons at a time. To top off the 5 gallons it takes about 8 hours and each cycle lowers it about .02.

I started at .24 salinity currently at .16 and I'm 48 hours in. The pH was drifting lower so added baking soda to my Kalk-reactor (no kalk in it prior). So pH is nice and stable at 8.15.

Good news is all the fish are eating frozen mysis and spirina brine shrimp well. And I'm feeding twice a day.

However my Ammonia is starting to drift up. Currently reading at .01 ppm. Not a problem yet and in the process of mixing up some new salt to do a water change.

However given I have angels going through hypo I want to lower the salinity slowly. Probally another 48 hours.

I see a couple of options.

1) Mix salt batch @ .09 and do a 30% water change. Concerned this may drop salinity too fast.

2) Mix salt batch @ .14 and do a 30% water change. This is probably the safest.

3) Continue the 5 gallons out and RODI ATO process but add some ammonia binder. However not sure how well that works in a hypo salinity treatment.

 

[Spar]

it is not uncommon for things to die off during hypo salinity decrease and cause some ammonia to creep up; just add ammonia binder product until it stays at zero.

i know you want to drop salinity slower, but you really don't have to go that slow. i used to drip my fish lower, even angels, over a two hour period.. from 1.025 to 1.009. with your plan of even doing .09 @ 30% WC's, you will be fine.

also, don't chase pH, chase Alk instead. try to keep your Alk stable around 4 dKH and pH will take care of itself. back when I did Hypo I found that Alk had a tendency to decrease rapidly and if not monitored caused issues.

 

[mattcoug]

Ammonia drifting up to what? It will kill your fish much faster than anything else in your water so you better control that, stop feeding so much. Fish don't need to eat so much and ammonia kills.

If ich is the concern, TTM can be more effective.

If you want to stay with hypo, drop the salinity much faster. Going slow is indicated to makes hypo less effective, and fish can handle drastic *drops* in salinity. Be sure to keep the temp constant. And add some prime/etc right now. Do not combine with cupramine.

 

[ThRoewer]

When doing hyposalinity treatment it is best to just drip acclimate the fish from normal salinity straight to hyposalinity. I've done that several times and the fish don't seem to have any problems with it.
The last thing you want is to give Cryptocaryon time to adapt.

Due to the discovery of some hypersaline strains of Cryptocaryon I would these days combine hyposalinity with full TTM.

Hyposalinity actually targets not only the theront stage but also the tomont stage by preventing it from encysting (Burgess 1992). This complements TTM well and reduces the risk of sterilization lapses.
Even with hyposalinity you ideally sterilize everything (except the fish of course) that goes into the tank, including the filter. That way you can be sure that there are no Cryptocaryon cysts in the system.
I would do transfers like with standard TTM every 3 days and feed sparingly. To counter Ammonia buildup you can add a water conditioner and/or do partial water changes. If not doing TTM you can add a bacterial filter starter like Dr. Tims, but be careful as hyposalinity can promote bacterial blooms. I would do a full water change and tank cleaning after a week.

You should also make sure to keep the ph at around 8. I do that by adding 2 part solution as needed.

As for all those who claim that keeping the salinity stable is a problem: a low salinity is actually easier to maintain than regular salinity since evaporation has a much reduced influence. To get a change from 1.008 to 1.009 you would need to have about 3 times the evaporation than the evaporation that will give you a rise from 1.025 to 1.026. If you contain evaporation by covering the tank you will be fine with checking and adjusting the salinity twice a day (imorning & evening).

 

[quahreef]

Thanks for the feedback ammonia was drifting up from 0 to .01 ppm so not a problem yet just formulating my plan for tonight. Didn't know that slow hypo less effective so will speed things up a bit.

I think I'll use a salt batch @ 1.009. With currently being @ 1.019 that should get me most of the way and will help with the ammonia.

 

[quahreef]

I've had good success with hypo salinity. I worry about the TTM stressing the fish out. Plus with this many fish at once it would be a bit complicated to keep everyone moving around.

 

[Spar]

I've had good success with hypo salinity. I worry about the TTM stressing the fish out. Plus with this many fish at once it would be a bit complicated to keep everyone moving around.

I have never experienced fish exhibiting stress during TTM. They pretty much always start eating right away and are personable soon after as well. The way to reduce stress the fastest for new QT'ed fish is to get them through the treatment phase as quick as possible, and TTM provides them with that given only 12 days. You can then put them in a more hospitable QT tank for the remainder of the assurance period (be it 2 more weeks or 6 more weeks, whatever comfortable with).

I do understand about TTM'ing several fish at once though. I once TTM'ed 6 medium sized Tang's together in a 30g. Even they did just fine though. It wasn't until I added them into the larger 450g DT that the blood bath began; otherwise they seemed cozy in the 30g.

I did Hypo for my first couple years of treating Ich, and as far as I could ever tell it was always successful. At least I never noticed Ich in my DT anyway. I lost way too many fish during Hypo though so switched to TTM where I lost almost no fish over the next few years. I blame my lack of monitoring Alkalinity in the end on the Hypo issue; otherwise, I think it would have had a lower mortality rate.

 

[Multra]

Fish can go straight from normal to hyposalinity without issues, I really wouldn't worry about dropping the salinity too fast.