Ich in a Large Tank

[e55MD]

I have and 400 gallon display with both invertebrates (anemone crabs, urchins, brittle stars), fish, and now.......ich!
It is basically impossible for me to remove all the water and 500lbs of live rock so I am unable to catch the fish for treatment in a quarantine tank. I would need an especially large QT to house all my fish since since there are large angels, puffers etc. So QT is really not an option.
Obviously copper and hyposalinity are not options either. I already soak all my food in garlic/selcon and run a UV sterilizer.
I might try adding some cleaner shrimp but my puffers and wrasses will probably eat them.
I am aware of some "reef same" medications such as Kick Ich and Stop Parasite but it sounds like they don't really work.
Has anyone here been in a similiar situation and have any suggestions?
Thanks

 

[Freed]

If you have large water storage containers you can drain your water into them while leaving a shallow pool in the sand/substrate where the fish will accumulate. You can then get them out easily and put into large QT tanks. Then pump all the water back into the main tank. Your best solution here. QT EVERYTHING wet in the future before putting in main tank and you won't have to worry about ich or other diseases getting in.

 

[Jflip2002]

Yeah, take all fish out, put in QT. Let the tank sit for a good 6 weeks, til the ich is gone. In the mean time treat the ich infected fish someway (maybe hyposalinity) until they are fine. Then throw em back in the display, and QT everything else that comes in fron this point on.

 

[StayPuft]

If you don't have enough cycled quarantine tanks, you can also do hypo in the display tank (FOWLR only). But you need to take out all the live rock and inverts and put them in something like a big container with salt water, a powerhead and heater. Then you can hypo the display tank with just the fish in it.

Not as good a solution as putting the fish in QT, but something to consider if that's not doable.

 

[Putawaywet]

I just went thru the very same thing you are dealing with (you can read about it here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12810309#post12810309) in my 300 gal reef and I can tell you from first hand experience that you only have 3 options. And all of them are going to suuck.

1. Tear your tank apart so you can remove the fish for treatment.

2. Hypo or Copper the tank as is, and do your best to deal with the collateral damage.

3. Try to isolate and correct what triggered the outbreak, max out your water quality, and let the fish fend for themselves.

In a quasi state of panic I innitially tried option #2 with one of those over the counter "reef safe"meds. When that failed to work, I consulted with other experienced hobbyists and a vet specializing in fish and resigned myself to option #3.

It was a very long and exhausting two week vigil, filled with ups and downs that included the loss of my 12 year old Majestic Angel, a Regal Angel and a half dozen Bartlett Anthias. Still, when the dust finally settled, both the remaining fish (a Clarion Angel, 10 year old yellow Tang and a handful of mildly rare Fairy wrasses) and I somehow made it thru.

Although I have no idea how the tang pulled thru as he was pretty heavily infested ... clouded eyes, white spots everywhere. I thought I had seen it all until I saw him willingly lying flat on the substrate allowing the Clarion to clean him.

Unfortunately, it's become apparent to me that by the time you diagnose the problem and dink around for a day or two pondering your options it may already be too late for some of the more seriously infected fish.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, I defintely know what you are facing. And remember, never give up, never surrender. Fight the fight till the very end.

Brett

 

[depresed34]

ich

ich

had ich in my 360g +120g sump system,broke down tank,started again and ich came back,from personal experience live fsh alone ,work on your water quality fish stresed out ,as soon u get your water right ich will diaappear,every time I get another tang ney guy gets ich for few days ,then clears itself out,had powder blue who had ich all the time and other fish were clean,I have 12 tangs right now w/o ich

 

[Ed Reef]

Re: Ich in a Large Tank

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13031459#post13031459 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by e55MD
I have and 400 gallon display with both invertebrates (anemone crabs, urchins, brittle stars), fish, and now.......ich!
It is basically impossible for me to remove all the water and 500lbs of live rock so I am unable to catch the fish for treatment in a quarantine tank. I would need an especially large QT to house all my fish since since there are large angels, puffers etc. So QT is really not an option.
Obviously copper and hyposalinity are not options either. I already soak all my food in garlic/selcon and run a UV sterilizer.
I might try adding some cleaner shrimp but my puffers and wrasses will probably eat them.
I am aware of some "reef same" medications such as Kick Ich and Stop Parasite but it sounds like they don't really work.
Has anyone here been in a similiar situation and have any suggestions?
Thanks

I feel for you....I just recovered from my Ich issues in my 300g.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1421171

Attached link if you are interested in reading....basically you have a couple of options, including stripping your tank but I want ahead with add feeding and let the fishes fight it off themselves (remaining 9 fishes) but ended up with PO4 issues, which i'm still trying to resolved. Tough decisions need to me made

Good luck

 

[mm949]

i had a similiar issue in my 1350gl......found my 600w heater went bad so tank went from 78 to 72 overnight

added a school of cleaner wrasses and dosed garlic everyday went away in 2 weeks did not lose any fish and have added 14 fish since with no re-occurance

there is hope
good luck

 

[e55MD]

Thanks everyone for your input and support.
My ich is what I would consider to be very mild. I see a few spots at times and then they seem to disappear. Maybe they are in their multiplying phase and will come back with a vengence, maybe they won't. Only time will tell. All this was triggered (I think) by the addition of a Harlequin Tusk from Diver's Den. The lesson for me here is to always QT no matter how good the source of your live stock is supposed to be.
My plan is going to be to stick with selcon/garlic soaked food, high water quality and UV sterilization. If things get worse, I will buy and set up 2 100gallon QT tanks and move everything out of my display for 6 weeks. Hopefully it will not come to this.
This is what my LFS recommended too.
I am a believer that ich exists in all tanks. I realize that there is a school of thought that thinks otherwise.

 

[Freed]

No there is actual proof that says otherwise.

 

[pmrogers]

e55md, we've had ich from about day 2 in our 700 and it's never been a serious problem. However, make sure your UV is powerful enough, bulbs new, and quartz sleeves clean.

We recently had a resurgence of ich. I finally decided to check the quartz sleeve on our 4-yr-old UV unit. I hadn't bothered before since I change the bulb every 9 months and have a bag filter in front of the UV. Bad call! The quartz sleeve was a murky mess, I'm sure reducing efficiency by half if not more.

 

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13040245#post13040245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
No there is actual proof that says otherwise.

Hey Freed, can you post a link? I'm interested in reading up on this.

TIA!

Sorry....back on topic......

 

[Freed]

You can do a search on reefkeeping magazine or wetwebmedia. I believe there are articles of studies done on the subject that proves it is possible. My tanks are ich free and there are hundreds of others here on RC that have ich free tanks. Not all that hard to accomplish.

I should add that I have erradicated any ich on any new fish in my QT by performing hyposalinity. I always QT corals, inverts, etc as well before adding to main tank.

 

[Ed Reef]

Hope you find the link useful. Good reading

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27003

 

[tolthoff]

Great thread!! I'm so glad I'm not the only one facing these issues. I recently began adding fish to my new 240g reef. My hippo tang was happily living in a 125g. Catching him to make the transfer really stressed him out! His sides turned white and there were white spots around his eyes and on his head.

I had dealt with ich on him before, about 5 months ago, when he was very tiny. I quarentined him, treated with copper/hyposalinity and multiple fresh water dips. I really didn't think he was going to make it at that time, but he did, and recovered nicely in quarentine. I moved him to the 125g display after 8 weeks. Since then, no ich on any of my fish. Now, after a stressful netting, it looks like ich again! He is back in quarentine for the time being, and seems to be doing OK. How long should I keep him quarentined?? any suggestions? Thanks, tolthoff

 

[e55MD]

In weighing my options, I was wondering if anyone thinks that adding an ozonizer would have any beneficial effect in helping to bring the ich population down? What unit would you recommend if price was not a limiting factor?

 

[centipede]

I don't think there is any way to reduce the ich population in your tank, other than keeping your fish happy and healthy. Once it's in your tank, it'll stay until you go fishless for 6+ weeks. Anything that causes stress to your fish will result in an ich breakout, but if they are healthy, they can battle it off.

 

[Freed]

tolthof, just QTing the tang will allow ich to live off of the other fish in the display. You really need to QT all your fish and let the tank remain fishless for no less than 4-6 weeks.

 

[Freed]

Ozonizer won't do anything to kill ich

 

[Paul B]

Obviousely from reading many posts you can see that you can have ich in a tank forever and not bother anything. Of course it is probably better to not have ich introduced in the first place but for some tanks it is not an option. I use NSW and I introduce things from the sea every week so I know ich is in there and has been since Nixon was President. It does not bother me or the fish. You will read many times that My fish had ich and it disappeared a year ago. That means ich is still in there at a low level but the fish have somehow become immune. They can only do this if they are in excellent condition which means breeding condition.
If you feed flakes every day with no live food, are overcrowed or have other stress factors too many to name, your fish will almost surely die from ich.
If I were you, I would not treat with anything. You could feed garlic although I am not yet sure if that does anything but people seem to like it. You will probably lose some fish but the ones you keep will in all probability live a long life as they "may " become immune. You will need to feed better. I would use (and I do) live black worms, frozen mysis, fresh clams etc. If you can get the fish in good enough condition, the ich should clear on it's own. Of course the fish would have been much better off if there was no ich in the first place or if your fish were in better shape to begin with. A diatom filter will also help remove paracites but it will not cure the disease. In my 40 years of experience with salt water very healthy fish in breeding condidion do not get ich. (usually)
As I said my reef has always had ich in it as it was set up before copper was invented, some fish lived in there for 18 years with an average of 10 years. Even my hippo tang, ich magnet that he is lived over 10 years so that blows out the theory that fish will always die from ich. Unhealthy fish will almost always die from it.
When the black plague killed a quarter of Europe in the dark ages the people who survived were stronger after they fought off the infection.
Good luck and have a great day.
Paul