Ich in frozen food?

[Naraku]

My point is that fallow only works for ich. Possibly brook and velvet. However, even if you waited 72 plus days, there is a chance that uronema is living in the system.

Therefore, if you are keeping expensive fish, I would avoid keeping them with corals.

Also anything not treatable like corals will be left in a tank for 72+ days by themselves to ensure no disease is being brought in be it corals or other inverts

 

[Naraku]

I know how frustrating it is to not be able to figure out what is happening to your fish.

I'm going thru a similar situation where I cannot identify a sore in my fish.


Good luck to the both of us.

 

[Naraku]

Dmorty,

Not that Larry's food was a definite cause, but have you ever considered weaning your fish onto pellets to rule out that possibility? (At least for the time being). I have fed my fish NLS pellets for 3 years so far as the sole food and it doesn't have hlle.

I personally dislike live food because of the risk but I thought to give you that suggestion just in case.

 

[aphenes]

At no point have a read any water parameters of your qt tank prior to, during, or after said issue occurred.
Any insight on some numbers?
Also, you indicated bloat caused by LRS foods on Genicanthus sp. angelfish. Please enlighten me on what you're referring to on this!
Thanks!

 

[Dmorty217]

My point is that fallow only works for ich. Possibly brook and velvet. However, even if you waited 72 plus days, there is a chance that uronema is living in the system.

Therefore, if you are keeping expensive fish, I would avoid keeping them with corals.

And I'm with you 110% I don't care for corals and the aren't important IMO, they look nice but the fish are what excite me. I have a 5lb pail of NLS pellets I need to feed more. I come from the more frozen variety the better.I Actually just bought a bunch of fresh seafood from the grocery to make my own food again. The LRF was just a quick short term solution. The thread was poorly titled on my part but I had run thru what was happening and that was the only thing that changed.

 

[Naraku]

Hey, gottcha. Might I suggest you to even throw out the rocks and get new dry rocks since they can be porous and allow parasites to hide inside by retaining water.

Speaking of which, another poster asked about the parameters, I think its a good idea to look into. Perhaps the ammonia rose during the quarantine process.

The fresh seafood are nutritious, but you should microwave and freeze them to prevent mycobacteria (which has no cure) and vibrio. Then you can add selcon or vitachem to replace any lost vitamins.

And I'm with you 110% I don't care for corals and the aren't important IMO, they look nice but the fish are what excite me. I have a 5lb pail of NLS pellets I need to feed more. I come from the more frozen variety the better.I Actually just bought a bunch of fresh seafood from the grocery to make my own food again. The LRF was just a quick short term solution. The thread was poorly titled on my part but I had run thru what was happening and that was the only thing that changed.

 

[ThRoewer]

Your system may have crashed from Uronema... Looks a lot like brook, but not a fish obligate parasite, so fallow is useless for this case.

This.

Uronema doesn't look like brook or velvet. Especially the terminal stage of Uronema can't be confused with those two.

There are also big questions about the efficacy of medicated foods.

Precisely!
Medicated foods are in my experience ineffective, unreliable at best. First you need to get your fish to eat it and then in the right amount to get the proper dosage. Most of my fish never even ate the medicated pellet food, and the few that did only ate it once. So I stopped even trying.

I never saw any spots on the fish but they ate in the morning and stopped and we're breathing heavy and hiding by evening. Male started flashing and rock scratching (same with the juv) so I treated with CP for ich. Two days later scribbled and juv were dead so I was convinced it was velvet,

ime, this does not sound like velvet? velvet kills by overwhelming the host, fish i've seen with velvet are covered, however, you never saw a spot?

I think you confused that with Cryptocaryon.
Amyloodinium primarily attacks the gills. You may never see anything on the fish's skin, but when you see velvet on the skin the gills are usually irreparably damaged and the fish is a death candidate. Heavy breathing is the best indicator.


I think immunity, especially partial immunity, is a very neglected aspect of importing diseases into a system.
Full or partial immunity against all protozoan parasites seems to be a rather common thing. Every fish that ever got in contact with one of the protozoan parasites will develop some degree of acquired protection. If this is only partial the fish can harbor the parasite without showing any symptoms. If this fish is then put together with fish that are naïve to this particular parasite it will cause a full scale outbreak that may even take out the partially immune fish.
Another trigger can be any form of stress or toxin that impairs the fish's immune system.

In essence: just because a fish looks and behaves healthy doesn't mean he is free of infectious parasites - even after weeks or months in quarantine.
That's why my new fish always get a prophylactic formalin bath before they even get into the QT.

 

[Dmorty217]

At no point have a read any water parameters of your qt tank prior to, during, or after said issue occurred.
Any insight on some numbers?
Also, you indicated bloat caused by LRS foods on Genicanthus sp. angelfish. Please enlighten me on what you're referring to on this!
Thanks!

You can read back thru Humaguy thread (Ted) and you can read all about the bloat. What numbers would you like to know that were in the 125g?? Everything was 0 with salinity at 1.023 with a Milwaukee digital meter. I mean come on, water parameters are as basic as is it gets. You think I lost these fish due to poor water quality or high nitrates??? Come on now... The bio filtration was too notch, before the fish arrived I could dump a half a bottle of pure ammonia in the tank and 12 hrs later it was undetectable.

 

[mitchrapp]

So that we all can learn from this, what do you think went wrong and how would you do it differently next time?

 

[Dmorty217]

So that we all can learn from this, what do you think went wrong and how would you do it differently next time?

Not sure what went wrong, I'm saying it was velvet with how quickly it killed the fish. What I could of done differently would of been either Start meds immediately upon arrival (you can see what the drawbacks to that can be) or... Well I'm not really sure. I could of formalin dipped them upon arrival and then started TTM with dips in between transfers. I have only done TTM though with a single fish before not multiples. I guess the lesson learned here is don't wait to start the meds

 

[gone fishin]

Sorry to read things did not work out better. Having never kept any of the types of fish you had, maybe try setting up a more specialized or specific QT process for these fishes. I wish you good luck the next time around.

 

[ThRoewer]

The problem with velvet is that by the time you actually see symptoms the damage is already so advanced that the fish likely won't make it through treatment. That's why it's best to assume every fish has it and put it through a formalin bath upon arrival before it goes into the QT.
In my experience, all fish will handle a formalin bath well at the correct dosage. None of the fish I put through it showed any signs of distress or even discomfort. They like it definitely better than a freshwater bath.
It is a way too easy measure to be skipped.

 

[Dmorty217]

The problem with velvet is that by the time you actually see symptoms the damage is already so advanced that the fish likely won't make it through treatment. That's why it's best to assume every fish has it and put it through a formalin bath upon arrival before it goes into the QT.
In my experience, all fish will handle a formalin bath well at the correct dosage. None of the fish I put through it showed any signs of distress or even discomfort. They like it definitely better than a freshwater bath.
It is a way too easy measure to be skipped.

1ml per gallon for up to a hr if 37% formalin solution right? I was under the impression that it was better to wait to not further stress the new arrivals... I have been proven wrong on this...

 

[mitchrapp]

...That's why it's best to assume every fish has it and put it through a formalin bath upon arrival before it goes into the QT....

How do you match salinity of the formalin bath with the shipping water upon fish arrival when it is recommended to aerate the bath 1-2 hours prior to adding fish to it?

 

[Thales]

And I'm with you 110% I don't care for corals and the aren't important IMO, they look nice but the fish are what excite me. I have a 5lb pail of NLS pellets I need to feed more. I come from the more frozen variety the better.I Actually just bought a bunch of fresh seafood from the grocery to make my own food again. The LRF was just a quick short term solution. The thread was poorly titled on my part but I had run thru what was happening and that was the only thing that changed.

If you are worried about disease though commercially available fish food, you should have the same concerns about any fresh seafood. BTW - .000001 percent chance your fish got disease from fish food.

 

[Dmorty217]

If you are worried about disease though commercially available fish food, you should have the same concerns about any fresh seafood. BTW - .000001 percent chance your fish got disease from fish food.

Right and I don't believe the fish got sick from the LRF. I have always fed frozen and never had this issue before

 

[mitchrapp]

1ml per gallon for up to a hr if 37% formalin solution right? I was under the impression that it was better to wait to not further stress the new arrivals... I have been proven wrong on this...

Noga states "Formalin is contraindicated if fish have been recently stressed (e.g. transported, shipped) or if skin ulcers are present...."

However, it seems like others are doing the baths almost immediately upon receiving fish with apparently no issues. It also doesn't define how recent is recent.

The literature also state that if your bath is >70F you should only use up to 150 ppm formalin, but many people are using ~250 ppm (1 ml per gallon).

 

[CHSUB]

I think you confused that with Cryptocaryon.
Amyloodinium primarily attacks the gills. You may never see anything on the fish's skin, but when you see velvet on the skin the gills are usually irreparably damaged and the fish is a death candidate. Heavy breathing is the best indicator.

not confusing with ich, however, i have only ever seen velvet twice and imo it's rare. Maybe it can kill without seeing any signs, but ime it was clearly velvet before the fish died.

 

[Dmorty217]

Noga states "Formalin is contraindicated if fish have been recently stressed (e.g. transported, shipped) or if skin ulcers are present...."

However, it seems like others are doing the baths almost immediately upon receiving fish with apparently no issues. It also doesn't define how recent is recent.

The literature also state that if your bath is >70F you should only use up to 150 ppm formalin, but many people are using ~250 ppm (1 ml per gallon).

This is exactly why I was waiting to treat. So it sounds like .5ml per gallon is what should be done.

 

[Dmorty217]

not confusing with ich, however, i have only ever seen velvet twice and imo it's rare. Maybe it can kill without seeing any signs, but ime it was clearly velvet before the fish died.

In 17 years this is only the second time I have experienced this, all within 6 months...