Ich in frozen food?

[Dmorty217]

I will pull the heater now to see if it helps anything. I'm at a total loss and am not made of money, which these last two times of dealing with have cost me A LOT.. If the fish had velevet to begin with how have the places I received them from keep the rest of their fish alive? More importantly after this I'm left to think there is no other way then to treat each fish immediately upon arrive and assume the have velvet and treat with CP followed by TTM for ich just to cross the Ts and dot the Is?? Fallow period for velvet is 6 weeks so that's one option for treatment of the 625g. The other is to get a Molly or two and put them in the 625g and treat the 625 with CP at 80mg/Gallon?? If I treat the 625g without fish in it that would serve no purpose since there is nothing in the tank to cause the velvet to progress thru the life stages correct? I hope to learn something from this to be able to help others.

 

[slief]

I would ditch the LRF if for no other reason then peace of mind.

That's kind of silly in my opinion. The contents of the LRF food probably warrant it more than ever. Sick fish need to eat well to overcome their issue. Sick fish often don't like to eat. Out of all the frozen food I have used over the years, it's the one food that stimulates the appetite of any fish I have ever owned from tangs and angelfish to pipe fish and blenny's. There are no parasites that I am aware of that would survive a deep freeze like that. Furthermore, all the fish that go into LRS foods is fresh from the collectors unlike most other frozen foods. The mysis in his food comes direct from Canada from PE and he even uses fresh live blood worms in his food. There are vitamin additives to promote health as well. There is very good reason why so many curators of large aquariums and breeders alike use and endorse that food. As such, if it were me, I would be looking elsewhere for the cause as it certainly isn't from his food.

That said, Dmorty, I am terribly sorry you are going through this. It's a tough pill to swallow and I hate hearing about these kinds of issues from seasoned reefers like yourself. I think you are on the right track and things will bounce back in no time!

 

[mattcoug]

Imo it is obvious to me that the fish came from a source that has low level copper in the system for parasite control. Once the fish get stressed from shipping/moving and lands in the copper free system, the velvet quickly gets out of control. Ime these fish could be saved by removing them from DT, giving a formalin dip, then putting them in a *sterile* qt with cp and kanamycin. Use prime and water change for ammonia control. Redose prime and kanamycin daily. Any new water needs dosed with cp. In 10 days the fish will be symptom free. Your DT and everything wet must remain away. Reusing anything(heater,nets) will restart the clock.

This is very stressful for the fish so bigger qt is better. Only feed what they eat, and siphon remains out after a couple minutes. If they don't eat at all then don't feed until the velvet is gone.

Please note that cycled qt's often have bacterial populations that will break down cp-hence the recommendation to use a sterile tank. It will not work in DT. Bleach the DT and start over or wait it out.

 

[Dmorty217]

Imo it is obvious to me that the fish came from a source that has low level copper in the system for parasite control. Once the fish get stressed from shipping/moving and lands in the copper free system, the velvet quickly gets out of control. Ime these fish could be saved by removing them from DT, giving a formalin dip, then putting them in a *sterile* qt with cp and kanamycin. Use prime and water change for ammonia control. Redose prime and kanamycin daily. Any new water needs dosed with cp. In 10 days the fish will be symptom free. Your DT and everything wet must remain away. Reusing anything(heater,nets) will restart the clock.

This is very stressful for the fish so bigger qt is better. Only feed what they eat, and siphon remains out after a couple minutes. If they don't eat at all then don't feed until the velvet is gone.

Please note that cycled qt's often have bacterial populations that will break down cp-hence the recommendation to use a sterile tank. It will not work in DT. Bleach the DT and start over or wait it out.

I can do this but sterile QT size now is limited to 75g that I have available at my home. Could go to a friends 125g if need be but would rather avoid that. The 100g Rubbermaid and 125g QT are compromised. The 625g was just setup so will remain fallow for 7-8 weeks just because. Duration and concentration of Foramlin dip? This is the second time I have gotten expensive fish from two different sources with the exact same outcome. Back to back nine the less with a 6 month lull

 

[mattcoug]

1ml 37% formalin per gallon of water for up to an hour. Vigorous aeration is required.

 

[mattcoug]

Ich in Larrys Reef Food?

Ich in Larrys Reef Food?

It is reasonable to assume that every source is using copper and expect all fish to be lightly infected when they arrive.

You have to either qt and treat everything carefully to eliminate all parasites, or try to walk the delicate line of managing them by boosting the fish's immune system and hoping no one gets sick enough to crash the tank.

 

[Dmorty217]

It is reasonable to assume that every source is using copper and expect all fish to be lightly infected when they arrive.

You have to either qt and treat everything carefully to eliminate all parasites, or try to walk the delicate line of managing them by boosting the fish's immune system and hoping no one gets sick enough to crash the tank.

Yes no kidding. Expensive lesson learned. The immunity thing is tough to rely on when you like expensive things. I get attached to these fish too

 

[snorvich]

If the fish had velevet to begin with how have the places I received them from keep the rest of their fish alive?

Many (most, all?) sources run a low level of copper at a non therapeutic level which can mask various parasites including velvet.

 

[GTR]

Many (most) sources may have a completely healthy selection the day before and then a new shipment arrives changing all that.

In a perfect world I wouldn't need to put new over old. lol

 

[LargeAngels]

That sucks. Yes, sounds like velvet. I hate the stuff. FW dips will cause all parasites attached more than 24 hours to fall off. Velvet spreads like wild fire. I had a tank in which some where covered but others never got it. As suggested it was probably brought in with the fish. Stress and lack of copper probably caused it to get out of control.

 

[Dmorty217]

Velvet is new to me in 17 years of reef keeping hence why I was slow to diagnose. Foramlin bath of 45 mins is over, going into the 75g sterile tank with 80mg/gallon of CP. fish is doing ok considering

 

[Dmorty217]

Angel isnt looking good, we will see if he is alive after I get back from dinner. So is the consensus to leave the 625g fallow for 6+ weeks then, or do something else? The 125g is being stripped down and going to run bleach thru it for a week then set it back up after everything is cleaned and dried.

 

[Jasanden]

It's not silly nor is it a knock on LRF. If your losing your hobby right in front of your eyes and you can't stop it and don't know why. The only thing that you can think of is the food. Why not stop it and go back to what you were feeding before. If it makes him feel better it's silly not too. I also feed Larrys but if I thought it was screwing my tank up I would stop.

 

[gone fishin]

Angel isnt looking good, we will see if he is alive after I get back from dinner. So is the consensus to leave the 625g fallow for 6+ weeks then, or do something else? The 125g is being stripped down and going to run bleach thru it for a week then set it back up after everything is cleaned and dried.

How are things going?

 

[Dmorty217]

How are things going?

Didn't live thru the night. The formalin bath pushed him over the edge I believe. Only did it for 45 mins and at less than 1ml a gallon (just barely). What a quick waste of $$$. Needless to say my QT practices are evolving now with this being my second encounter with velvet in 6 months.

 

[Mrs. Music]

Dmorty217, I am so sorry for your loss. It just sucks to lose fish like that. Do you know if your fish source uses copper in their tanks? Awhile back you and I discussed the use of QS aka QP(quinine) medications to treat fish for paracytes, I am not sure if you remember. It was very challenging, and heart breaking for me. I get why LFS use copper to treat fish, but we know it only keeps them alive long enough to sell and then crash abd burn in your tank. I think if they were open about their practices it would save fish, and retain good customers. My favorite fish store owners here in Toledo are always very open to discussing what they have going on in their tanks, do not use copper, QT for two weeks for observation and enourage their costomers to QT at home.

 

[SDguy]

Very sorry to read this. I'm not sure if I mentioned it to you (I know I've written it in several places)... IME meredithi angels are just ridiculously susceptible to ich, and suffer pretty badly when they have it. Stop eating, turn grey, and just hang out in one spot breathing fast. Classic velvet symptoms, but each time mine had it (embarrassingly 2 or 3) it was definitely ich, not velvet, and I doubt the fish would have lived had I not immediately treated with copper each time.

Anyway, just my experience. Hoping you have success with your next purchases!

 

[BlueMac92]

Man.....I'm so sorry. I have been in your shoes. Not knowing what I did wrong or what I could of done to prevent it. It really.....REALLY sucks. Made me want to hang up the towel and everything. But you live and learn. Big key is to NOT dwell on it. I did so much so that I started getting paranoid and made foolish decisions. Thinking "well when I didn't quarantine I didn't have these problems" or "maybe I should try this instead of that".

I'm thinking you just had one bad fish that ruined the bunch? The unknown contaminate is possible. Sometimes we focus so hard on the more difficult things that we over- look the basics and obvious. Stupid things like spending $$$ on food because my bandit wasn't eating only to realize my tank temp is set at 78 degrees. Or (and this is going back) trying to figure out why my fish are breathing so rapidly only to realize I filled the tank up too much after a WC to my QT.

The food thing is....very highly unlikely. I've been in the hobby for 8 years now, running a LFS for a few of those years as well, and it'd be the first time I've ever heard of that happening. Especially coming from such a reputable vendor.

I am not sure if Brian runs copper in his FO system or not TBH. All the tanks, however, are set up BB with PVC. So I suppose it is possible. Just ask him. A lot of stores do it though.....

Keep your head up man....

 

[Dmorty217]

Man.....I'm so sorry. I have been in your shoes. Not knowing what I did wrong or what I could of done to prevent it. It really.....REALLY sucks. Made me want to hang up the towel and everything. But you live and learn. Big key is to NOT dwell on it. I did so much so that I started getting paranoid and made foolish decisions. Thinking "well when I didn't quarantine I didn't have these problems" or "maybe I should try this instead of that".

I'm thinking you just had one bad fish that ruined the bunch? The unknown contaminate is possible. Sometimes we focus so hard on the more difficult things that we over- look the basics and obvious. Stupid things like spending $$$ on food because my bandit wasn't eating only to realize my tank temp is set at 78 degrees. Or (and this is going back) trying to figure out why my fish are breathing so rapidly only to realize I filled the tank up too much after a WC to my QT.

The food thing is....very highly unlikely. I've been in the hobby for 8 years now, running a LFS for a few of those years as well, and it'd be the first time I've ever heard of that happening. Especially coming from such a reputable vendor.

I am not sure if Brian runs copper in his FO system or not TBH. All the tanks, however, are set up BB with PVC. So I suppose it is possible. Just ask him. A lot of stores do it though.....

Keep your head up man....

I have asked him but he is yet to respond to me. I text him last night just giving him a heads up about what happened. I never saw any spots on the fish but they ate in the morning and stopped and we're breathing heavy and hiding by evening. Male started flashing and rock scratching (same with the juv) so I treated with CP for ich. Two days later scribbled and juv were dead so I was convinced it was velvet, upped the dose of CP and the male seemed to be doing better (at least a little). Dipped and put him in a sterile 75g with CP and he never recovered from the dip. I'm definitely going to need some answers from Brian on what he does or does not use in the tanks... I'm over it at this point but can't repeat this again! The next fish 2 months or so from now will be a Conspicuous (the only fish now) and what just happened CANNOT happen with the Conspic

 

[snorvich]

tank transfer with formalin baths in between cycles followed by five weeks of observation while building a strong feeding response.