Ich in reef

[Alex T.]

OK, I'm a little upset that ich broke out in my reef even after proper quarantine. No new fish added in over a year and bam...there it is.

Anyway, all fish have been relocated to a qt tank for the recommended 6-8 week treatment. Since I've been carbon dosing and feeding heavily I was wondering what anyone's advice is as to how to proceed with the display. In order to not disrupt the stability of what my sps are accustomed to in terms of feeding and carbon dosing I was wondering if I should feed some type of reef food (which I've never done) and continue or stop carbon dosing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[James404]

I've had my display empty for about 5 weeks now and I can tell you its been a hard balance. I have been feeding oyster feast 1-2x a week but have found that is very high in PO4, I change GFO twice a week along with 10% water changes. I had tried running ROX carbon twice so far and had STN both times. Algae has been an issue since my grazers are out of the tank to keep it at bay. Can't wait to get these fish back in already.

 

[Alex T.]

James...this is exactly what I'm worried about. I'm actually thinking about maybe only dosing some amino acids and skimming very dry to keep some nutrients in the tank.

 

[MammothReefer]

meh I wouldn't do anything. Feed your fish, and call it good. Ich really shouldn't be a cause for concern as long as your water parameters are stable, and your fish are well fed it shouldn't be an issue. Relocating the fish, qt'n, disturbing the tank all that just adds more stress. When I added a couple fish a few months ago my whole tank broke out with ich I kept on as normal maybe even fed a little heavier.. and poof all gone after a few rounds. There is a number of discussions on this in the fish forum. I've done this time and time again for years on end. I have yet to loose a fish from ich (and believe me they have all had it at one point or another).

If anything and I know this is totally out there. I'm going with ICH adds an extra layer of food for your SPS

 

[James404]

Mammoth I used to have the same outlook, all my fish had ich and were able to survive but it got to a point where I was adding new fish that cost hundreds of dollars, coming down with extreme cases of it and after a few days refusing to eat and dieing that I said it had to be resolved. I had an angel that was on the verge of death in the display, I was able to get him out and into hypo with little stress and he is very healthy today.

Now I am not saying your method is wrong or won't work but I think dissuading people that want to treat their fish is the wrong way to go about things. Getting a fish out of a display and into a proper hospital tank should not be that stressful on a fish. A simple soda bottle trap usually does the trick.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

I had very good results eliminating ich in my 350 gallon SPS system by using ozone. Ran it for about a year and half and it allowed me to aclimate several difficult fish that i had never been able to keep long term before using ozone. After six months or so with no ich showing up i removed the ozone generator and havent had any relasps in several years. I keep the powder blue tang and a kole tang and I cant imagine an easier way than ozone to get them through the first couple of years in your system.

 

[Alex T.]

Mammoth, I use to have the same approach as you....till I lost my prized Achilles that had been with me for years.

Besides, everyone is already in the qt and eating. I got them out before any of the "point of no return" symptoms were able to show themselves.

My main question is how to take care of the display feedings in a carbon dosed system since there will be no fish for 6 - 8 weeks.

 

[skibum9884]

I've wondered the same thing. Maybe using specific coral foods such as Coral Frenzy or some of the Fauna Marin products are the way to go?

I'm not sure what to say about the carbon dosing. I'll be interested to see what the experts say.

 

[MammothReefer]

I'm not dissuading people from treating there fish. I'm suggesting that you look at the root problem and resolve it. I don't believe (and in my experiences have found). The QT process can be more stressful then is necessary for something like ICH.

Why are your fish susceptible to ICH? Water quality issues? Feeding habits, stress?
Typically i've found if you toss in a new fish from the wild it will infect your tank with ich and then it will go away after a round or to. If it persists after that then you need to figure out what is wrong with your system that is inhibiting your fish from recovering.

Ripping apart your tank and stressing everything out including the fish to toss them in a QT and then have the hassle of taking care of 2 separate systems. Has never been a good way to go about it for me. All you are going to do is see the ich drop off, toss them back in the display and repeat. Until you figure out why they continue to show signs of ICH infestation in the first place.

I've kept Regal Angels, Achilles tangs, ect ect. In terms of a soda bottle that works with some fish, but not with all, and frankly I don't have room to toss one in my tank. Trying to get my Yashas out would involve dismantling all my rock work.


however good luck you already got them out, so my point is mute.

In terms of feeding the tank, i would say keep feeding it the same. I'm sure your pods, and other inverts would enjoy the food.

 

[Alex T.]

Well, feeding is not a concern. 4 cubes per day and New Life Spectrum Pellets.

And water quality is as follows...and has been this way for many months...

NO3 Undetectable
PO4 undetectable
Ca: 430
Alk: 8 dKH
Mg: 1350
Ph: 7.95 - 8.14
Temperature: 77 - 80 degrees

SPS are colorful and growing, fish are fat and the 150 display and 35 gallons of sump volume gets a 25 gallon water change with Reef Crystals salt every Sunday morning like clockwork.

I doubt it's my water quality or lack of food. I won't keep fish thin for the sake of water quality so I carbon dose, change RODI filters religiously and perform above average maintenance.

 

[MammothReefer]

Could it be electrical? Bad power head or something?

 

[dzhuo]

Alex,
That sucks about ich. I agree with Mammoth that over reacting would cause more stress to the tank. I haven't had to deal with ich in my new tank but in my old tanks, I easily cure it by using garlic. No chemical, medicine or relocating to catch the fish. It roughly took 3 days and ich is completely gone; just normal feeding and soak the food in garlic juice. The best part, the fish love the food even more with the strong smell of garlic. Once the fish is healthy and stress free again, ich had not re-occur. I do think, however, that this would only work if the ich is on its early stage.

 

[James404]

:beer:

I'm not dissuading people from treating there fish. I'm suggesting that you look at the root problem and resolve it. I don't believe (and in my experiences have found). The QT process can be more stressful then is necessary for something like ICH.

Why are your fish susceptible to ICH? Water quality issues? Feeding habits, stress?
Typically i've found if you toss in a new fish from the wild it will infect your tank with ich and then it will go away after a round or to. If it persists after that then you need to figure out what is wrong with your system that is inhibiting your fish from recovering.

Ripping apart your tank and stressing everything out including the fish to toss them in a QT and then have the hassle of taking care of 2 separate systems. Has never been a good way to go about it for me. All you are going to do is see the ich drop off, toss them back in the display and repeat. Until you figure out why they continue to show signs of ICH infestation in the first place.

I've kept Regal Angels, Achilles tangs, ect ect. In terms of a soda bottle that works with some fish, but not with all, and frankly I don't have room to toss one in my tank. Trying to get my Yashas out would involve dismantling all my rock work.


however good luck you already got them out, so my point is mute.

In terms of feeding the tank, i would say keep feeding it the same. I'm sure your pods, and other inverts would enjoy the food.

I do agree with most of your statements here and hope you don't take mine as a personal attack. There definitely was an underlying cause for the ich issues I experienced which was stress from a new fish addition. I am going to leave this thread alone now because I can forsee it going in the wrong directions.

 

[jcw]

If you do it once, and treat all new fish, you won't have to worry about it again.

Hypo is NOT stressful for most fish. It actual conserves energy and allows for healing. That's a fact.


If you don't do it, whenever you or someone or something causes a change in your system, you'll be at risk for for an outbreak.


The decision is for each one of us to make. There's no right answer.

It's like how do you want to raise your kids.

 

[Fig]

Try the NLS Thera A pellets

 

[MammothReefer]

:beer:


I do agree with most of your statements here and hope you don't take mine as a personal attack. There definitely was an underlying cause for the ich issues I experienced which was stress from a new fish addition. I am going to leave this thread alone now because I can forsee it going in the wrong directions.

No personal attacks. It a discussion forum. We are just here to discuss ideas and give our suggestions and input. Never take any of it personally. :fish2:

 

[MammothReefer]

If you do it once, and treat all new fish, you won't have to worry about it again.

Hypo is NOT stressful for most fish. It actual conserves energy and allows for healing. That's a fact.


If you don't do it, whenever you or someone or something causes a change in your system, you'll be at risk for for an outbreak.


The decision is for each one of us to make. There's no right answer.

It's like how do you want to raise your kids.

What? There is only one way to raise kids.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat

 

[Alex T.]

I tried the garlic route before. That's what led to my Achilles Tang's death. He ignored everything soaked in garlic. I didn't remove him and lost a beautiful fish a week later. While I agree that "some" fish can live with ich, I now fully believe it's not the best route to take from my experience. After extensive reading on ich in the past it's plain to see that ich is not the common cold that goes away. It's a debilitating parasite that needs to be dealt with head on. While many claim they've naturally cured ich with "reef safe" remedies and garlic or ginger additives, there is no documented proof that it does anything other than maybe boost the immune system...until one day. Go on vacation for a week and have a tank sitter miss a feeding or forget to use the garlic elixr and see if ich can attack your fish again. It can, and most likely will. Any new additions will most likely cause an outbreak as well. I simply refuse to put my fish through that again. As for the stress of a qt, it's a 125 gallon tank that is dimly lit and has enough PVC pipe to plumb a small house...so lots of hiding and rest areas for rehab. The fish already appear to be breathing better in the hyposalinity. I don't find properly executed qt stressful to fish at all. It's when we wait too long to treat that removal from the display is most risky.

If garlic truly was the panacea it's made out to be by some users then public aquariums wouldn't be wasting the time and resources quarantining all new arrivals.

Am I wrong?

 

[dzhuo]

I am not sure if you are wrong or not. A lot of stuff / ideas / opinions etc in this hobby aren't back up by true scientific data or research. It's a collective knowledge shared by many and if you are not a believer, you are not a believer. It's hard to say right or wrong. For virtually everything that's stated and widely accepted as universal "facts" in this hobby, there are equally countless examples of people running their system in complete opposite directions and still with success. Which group of people are right and wrong?

While many claim they've naturally cured ich with "reef safe" remedies and garlic or ginger additives, there is no documented proof that it does anything other than maybe boost the immune system

That's exactly the point: The best ich solution is the fish's immune system. My impression is garlic simply gives them a boost which allow them to recover (from whatever stress that leads to the ich in the first place) until that stress is gone (either naturally or by the owner fixing it). I don't think garlic works 100% of time especially depending on the stage of the ich and the outbreak but I always caught ich early and it has worked for me fairly well. If all of your fish is having ich, you probably have a much larger outbreak than what I had deal with before so it might not work for you.

 

[BuckeyeTodd]

Good luck Alex, it stinks you were on the right track with your tank and had this come up.