briankmarsh1980
I'm a member of **!!!!!!
that works great to
hypo and copper are the only ways to kill ich
Ich POLL!
- Thread starter THEDLO
- Start date
hypo and copper are the only ways to kill ich
MrTuskfish
Team RC
I certainly did not mean to imply that hobbyists with better skills & experience means that they have the ability to keep a tank ich-free without treating fish & the tanks. The opinions of this group is not going to be influenced by this thread. I meant that the beginning hobbyist may easily assume the anecdotal accounts of unexplained cures are common and the norm. They are neither. There is something missing in this whole discussion. I don't know what it is or am I implying it is intentional. Until there is more than just individual accounts of unexplained ich cures, that could easily involve countless unknowns; I, and I hope the beginners , will stick with the advice of the real experts. People like Fenner, Goemans, RC Mods, etc.
newbies should get a mentor, and read the books. Internet "experts" are to be taken with a grain of salt-Mods included. Even the people that agree with you on here are making gross mis-statments on the treatments,fallow time etc etc. Internet stuff is like gossip- a little gets lost and a little gets added with each step.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
Bottom line, IMO. This is a forum, not a classroom with a PhD at the lectern. A forum is simply an exchange of information, experiences, ideas, and opinions. Nothing more & nothing less. (besides, at least half the PhD s I know are idiots; when removed from their area of expertise.:wavehand:---to my contract law Prof who downgraded me just because I was hungover almost 40 years ago!)
That should be stickied at the top of each forum.
I currently have ich in my system. I bought an Achilles and added him into my 7 yr old tank with all my old guys and gals and a little ich showed up on the Achilles. No big deal. Every once in a while I would see a couple spots on my black tang, before the Achilles, and they would go away for a while. Well, the achilles started looking bad, covered in it. No one else though. He was still eating fine and finally started calming down and living peacefully. But, he still was covered in what looked like scars or something and a few spots so I made the unwise decision to pull all fish out and I setup a 100 gallon hospital tank. I honestly think that has caused more stress than letting them deal with it and keep them healthy in a nice established tank (see my post in this forum titled "Advise needed" or something like that). He looked to be beating it but I paniced because my fisrt tank over 8 yrs ago broke out and I lost everything. I didn't want to go through that again. Oh well, I think I am going to get them out today or tomorrow and put them back. Way to much stress right now. So I voted yes because of the fact I see a couple spots here and there on my black tang before all this and he always seems to beat it. He is a weird fish anyway, a loner type. I think it is when the others pay to much attention to him is when he gets into a mood and gets a couple spots.
RBU1
Moving on Up
Well..........This is an interesting topic and I am not sure what I believe anymore. I was and still am for the QT process. But I guess my reasoning has changed recently. My initial reason for qting was to keep parasites out of my tank. My reason for qting now is to make the fish strong enough to fight off the parasite that somehow made it to my display after qting all my fish. So needless to say crypt is harder to keep out hen one wished to admit. My tank now will be left alone and not a single fish remove for treatment. The only fish showing signs is the latest to enter the main tank. The achilles hybrid. I currently have a scribbled angel in QT that will go in the main in a week or so.
My theory is easy- fish get sick when stressed. Shipping is stress- so the y need to be kept in qt observation because they are most likely to get a sickness or infestation at this time of stress. for me once a fish is in the display- it likely will remain there regardless. I am not going to stress the whole tank for the sake of one fish. If my tank is in such a disarray that it stresses all the fish and they all get sick- then I would likely break down the system and transfer fish to a hospital tank for treatment.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
Given the number of parasites that can develop in the closed confines of a tank; even the healthiest fish can become infested with ich. I'm not an expert on this subject. I have experienced ich wipeouts, seen the healthiest fish die from ich and I've read everything I have time for on the subject. There are many posts on this forum that, more than ever, make me think ich is being misdiagnosed a lot. I'm not telling anyone they're wrong, there are just too many variables to do that; its just a gut feeling, but not without merit---IMO.
I agree its misdiagnosed a lot- maybe half the time. Then again the treatments for the various parasites is often the same. I have as you say- seen healthy fish get it as well- but not without a major stress incident prior. These major stresses include- poweroutage,temp spike or drop, etc. I also think some of the "fresh from the ocean"strains will spank the healthiest fish-if a non qt`d ich factory like a tang or puffer is introduced without proper QT.
Stuart60611
New member
This poll is really worthless. Many people have crypt (ich) in their systems and do not even notice it because of an untrained eye or because fish remain largely asymptomatic. Therefore, polling in this fashion is not even slightly reliable because the data upon which it is based is very flawed. If you have multiple fish in your display system and did not use very strict protocal in quarantine to avoid introduction of the parasite into your display, then the chances are extremely high that you have crypt in your system. I have read one article which idicates that approximately 1/3 of all fish sold retail in the trade are infected with a parasite. Moreover, I see many people here misdiagnose crypt and instead believe that crypt is black ich (a worm), flukes, or some other parasite because they are confusing the secondary problems caused by crypt with the underlying infestation. A poll based on a sampling of misinformed people adds little to the discussion.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
.......not to mention the what beginners face when they follow the "easy" way after reading so much conflicting information.
Last edited:
Stuart60611
New member
Ya, unfortuantely, there are quite a few people here at RC who regularly post to others on how to approach parasite treatment and prevention who themselves are very inexperienced and/or misinformed about the topic. This is very troubling because it is one thing when you decide for yourself to defy accepted protocal and treatment, but it is quite another when you advise a very inexperienced hobbyist to do the same. I find it very morally offensive when someone takes it upon themselves to cause another hobbyists to risk the very lives of their fish based on misinformation when the hobbyist does not yet understand the risk he or she is taking. Not that post count alone is a reliable indicator, but I would recommend that no one follow the advice on this topic of anyone who has less than 1000 posts here at RC because there are so many people here at RC who regularlly post incorrect information on this topic. Those with a 1000 posts or more are much more likely to know what they are talking about with respect to this topic. Since the very lives of our fish depend on accurate information in terms of parasite prevention or treatment, I think that this approach is wise, although not full proof in terms of eliminating the vast amount of misinformation posted.
Last edited:
MrTuskfish
Team RC
+1 If you follow the "healthy fish don't get ich" theory, then wild tangs should never get it. They do, and there very few active ich parasites at the level tangs inhabit on the reef. If a healthy, wild tang could get any ich parasites, why wouldn't that same fish be covered with the parasite in a captive environment? The number of ich parasites in a tank (if present) have to be at a concentration thousands of times what the tang encounters on the reef. Please don't tell me its the garlic.
RBU1
Moving on Up
I disagree with the 1000 post comment. There are people that have been around here for less than a year with over 1000. Go with amount of time in the hobby.
Stuart60611
New member
I agree that the post count is not necessarily reliable and that many people with less than a 1000 posts are very knowledgeable, and I guess that there are some people who post prolificly who can obtain a 1000 posts quickly, although fairly rare. Maybe more than 1000 posts would be a more appropriate threshold. It would be nice if we could go with your suggested "time in the hobby" criteria to determine reliability, but unfortuantely that is not so. People often plainly lie and state that they have been in the hobby for quite a long time when in fact they have not. You cannot fudge one's post count as easily and therefore is a much more reliable indicator where as "time in the hobby" is whatever someone chooses to state without any check as to its reliability.
RBU1
Moving on Up
What I meant was join date on Reef Central. Not someones word for how long thy have been in the hobby.
Stuart60611
New member
jimmyj7090
aka John K
There is so much confusing info / opinion in this thread......
-ick is a parisite with a well known life cycle. It absolutely can be eradicated if the correct measures are taken. "ick is present in every tank" is absolutely not true and it is very misleading when people make such statements. Parisites do not appear out of thin air. They have to come in on something, period.
-ick outbreaks are definately stress related. When ick IS present in a system, any new stressor is likely to make it flare up.
-QT is QT. Treatment is treatment. Treatment needs to be done in QT, but QT does not treat.
-"treatment" is either hyposalinity or copper. (or the transfer method, but that scares me
)
-QT without treatment is helpful for letting a fish acclimate in peace and be in the best place to fight the parisite if the fish is then placed in a system where ick IS present. QT without treatment absolutely does not assure that the fish is not carrying ick.
-Ick can be managed in a healthy system, and the vast majority of reef tanks are living with ick but managing it.
-ick is a parisite with a well known life cycle. It absolutely can be eradicated if the correct measures are taken. "ick is present in every tank" is absolutely not true and it is very misleading when people make such statements. Parisites do not appear out of thin air. They have to come in on something, period.
-ick outbreaks are definately stress related. When ick IS present in a system, any new stressor is likely to make it flare up.
-QT is QT. Treatment is treatment. Treatment needs to be done in QT, but QT does not treat.
-"treatment" is either hyposalinity or copper. (or the transfer method, but that scares me
)-QT without treatment is helpful for letting a fish acclimate in peace and be in the best place to fight the parisite if the fish is then placed in a system where ick IS present. QT without treatment absolutely does not assure that the fish is not carrying ick.
-Ick can be managed in a healthy system, and the vast majority of reef tanks are living with ick but managing it.
Similar threads
