Ich that just doesn't seem to end

[6stringpenguin]

Has anybody ever had a case of ich that has lasted for well after a month, no matter what you've tried to do to take care of it? I have a fish only tank with only a few fish left, they get better looking, but withtin a few days of looking better, they start to get spots again. I had a horrible infestation a few weeks ago, but daily water changes and Kick-Ich have lessened it. If i don't do a water change everyday, the fish start to look pretty bad again. I am at the end of my rope and have thought about other options (including getting rid of the tank, I have been that frustrated). I am open to anything to help save my last 2 tangs. I have a hippo, who seems to get the worst out of all of the fish, and a sailfin. They are both about 2 to 3 inches long. They both eat without any hesitation. Aside from the Ich, they would look great, they are very colorful, have no ripped fins, and have full bellies.

ANY SUGGESTIONS WELCOME!!!
Thanks all for any advice I recieve.

 

[Iammatt219]

try hyposalinity

 

[jnfallon]

You need to read this.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282934

 

[drej424]

I've been going through this with my tank, too. I'm now down to 3 fish. They've been in a quarantine tank for a little over a week now. The salinity is down to 1.014 now and I haven't seen any more signs of ich. It should be at about 1.010 after the next water change.
Everything in the main tank seems to be doing fine - corals, shrimp, snails and crabs. Feeding them seems a little strange with no fish in the tank.
I'm really hoping this will do the trick. Ich is a lousy way for a fish to die....

 

[DEXTER SOLIS]

if it a fish only, do try hypo. as a last resort you can copper. bothe require constant monitoring of parameters. check fish dse forum.

drej, going hypo with corals sounds like a bad idea. the inverts survived my hypo, but I removed all corals.

good luck guys, I know how it feels.

 

[drej424]

Dex, I'm only doing hypo with my fish in the quarantine tank. The corals stayed in the main tank with normal salinity. With no fish in the 55G, the ich should die off. (I think someone told me it's letting the tank go fallow or something.) Thanks for the heads up.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9107728#post9107728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drej424
It should be at about 1.010 after the next water change

That'll be tomorrow if it wasn't tonight You really don't need to take more than 2 days to drop the salinity and taking longer has no benifits

 

[Giovanni]

I have had a bad case of ich for months. About 7 weeks ago, I tore my reef tank apart to get the fish out to a QT. I had lost more fish then I care to talk about. I tried hyposaline treatment. After 4 weeks with no ich, I raised the salinity and what happened? You guessed it the ich was there again. I had even done the transfer method in conjunction with the hyposalinity. Well I am now using copper. After 3-4 days I no longer see any signs of ich. In thirty days post ich and then removing the copper we shall see. I will never place a fish in my tank again that has not been QTed and treated for ich. Getting those fish out was a PITA!!!!! Never again.

 

[DgenR8]

In order to beat ICH, you have to understand it's life cycle. Hypo for four weeks, is a waste of four weeks.

jnfallon posted a link above. You really should follow that link, and do some reading. ICH can be beaten, and the best weapon for the battle is knowledge.

 

[Giovanni]

DgenR8,

I see you are RC staff so try avoiding personal attacks on the patrons of this site, especially the paying ones. I have followed those links and read the articles, as you will see from the quotes to follow. Please feel free to reread the articles to verify that I am quoting accurately.

I never said that ICH couldn't be beat. I merely stated my experience with hyposalinity as not eradicating every subspecies of ich I have.

That said, let me quote Terry Bartelme's "News from the Warfront with Cryptocaryon irritans", Part Three of Five under the section labeled "Hyposalinity therapy" Fourth paragraph where he states "Treatment should continue for a minimum of three weeks after a therapeutic salinity level has been reached."

As stated in my previous post, what I actually did was use his "hypo-trans" method outlined under Part Five of Five in the same series of articles by Bartelme.

I do understand the life cycle of Cryptocaryon irritans. What I also understand is that most of the research and data collected to this point are incomplete with regard to our specific sp. of fish and exposure to various subspecies of Cryptocaryon irritans. Out fish normally would not encounter in the wild all the same subspecies of ich as they do in captivity. We collect animals from all over the world and place them in holding tanks together. When the English were exposed to malaria in Africa the mortality rate was 40% per year in the 1830s. The indigenous people of Africa did not suffer those kinds of losses. Why do you think that is? Here in 2007, when we travel to Africa, we do not loose 40% of those traveling? Why do you think that is? We have vaccines and treatments for the disease to make up where our limited exposure and thus limited immunity fail us. It is similar for our fish. Until conclusive research is complete on the species of fish and the subspecies of ich we house in our hobby, we can only rely on our own experience and the experience of others in this hobby.

Again let me quote Bartelme "copper therapy is the most well established means of combating Cryptocaryon irritans." I find that hyposalinity does not work for my fish. I know from personal experience that copper has worked all the way back 15 years ago when I setup my first salt tank. Back then we used good old copper sulfate. These days many are using chelated copper. This is all I could get locally so I ordered some copper sulfate as a back up incase the chelated copper doesn't work.

Personally I will treat any new fish with prophylactic copper while in the 6-week quarantine. No more short cuts for me! No more tearing my tank apart because I just had to have that new fish in my tank!

 

[drej424]

Bill, I did another water change today, as directed. I changed 5 G in a 29 G QT. The salinity is down to 1.012 now. My poor fish have been through a lot and I don't want to lose any more if I can help it! Is there any harm in taking my time about dropping the salinity? Thanks for your help.

Larry, thanks for the reference to these articles, both in this post and in mine. I need all the help I can get....

Denise

 

[billsreef]

Denise,

The harm in going slow is allowing the ich to persist just that much longer. So go ahead and take it the rest of the way down today

 

[DgenR8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9112189#post9112189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
DgenR8,

I see you are RC staff so try avoiding personal attacks on the patrons of this site, especially the paying ones. I have followed those links and read the articles, as you will see from the quotes to follow. Please feel free to reread the articles to verify that I am quoting accurately.

 

[todd rose]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9112161#post9112161 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DgenR8
In order to beat ICH, you have to understand it's life cycle. Hypo for four weeks, is a waste of four weeks.

jnfallon posted a link above. You really should follow that link, and do some reading. ICH can be beaten, and the best weapon for the battle is knowledge.

Understanding the life cycle of ich is not required to beat it. Employing the proper treatment protocol is what is required.

 

[jnfallon]

<blockqoute>"Life is too short for frags"</blockquote>

I guess life's too short to learn how to keep your pets alive.

Much better to helplessly watch them die.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9117123#post9117123 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by todd rose
Understanding the life cycle of ich is not required to beat it. Employing the proper treatment protocol is what is required.

Is understanding the life cycle required to beat it? No. However, folks not understanding the life cycle of Cryptocaryon irritans, aka ich, is why so many snake oil remedies and myths exist. So it does help, and making the suggestion of understanding the life cycle is far from an attack on anyone

 

[DgenR8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9117123#post9117123 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by todd rose
Understanding the life cycle of ich is not required to beat it. Employing the proper treatment protocol is what is required.

So, you don't care to know how, why, or if the treatment you decide to administer works? By what criteria do you choose the method of treatment, if you know nothing about how, why, or if they work?


I was really just trying to say that knowing what you are dealing with is key to success here. Maybe it can be done knowing nothing, but I prefer to err on the other side. jnfallon posted a link that takes you to everything you need to know about ICH, I was just giving an endorsement to the info behind that link.

 

[billsreef]

BTW, Giovanni/Todd Rose,

Do you two always follow each other around the board as well as having the same tank and equipment?

 

[Giovanni]

I am not saying the article referred to has no validity with regard to hyposalinity and the transfer method combined (hypo-trans) as a treatment for ich, just that the data is not complete in that area. I decided to go with the more proven method of copper only after trying the hypo-trans method myself, just to have the ich come back when I raised the salinity. I am sure 6stringpenguin will find the way that works for him/her. 6stringpenguin did state “ANY SUGGESTIONS WELCOME!!!” So my suggestion as someone who has “Ich that just doesn't seem to end” is to skip the hyposalinity or transfer type treatments and go straight to copper.


Larry and Bill,
PMs sent regarding the off topic stuff.

 

[6stringpenguin]

I appreciate everyones help on this thread, but I was away from the computer for a day or so, and I see everyone attacking eachother. I really only came here for help, not to stir a pot.

Thanks to everyone filling me in on Ich.