ich!!!!!!! what should i do

[adrian52492]

hi all i wake up this morning and turn on my lights for my 55 everything looks bad.my hammer is sceleton,my clowns swimined in all directions,my hippo covered in these little white spots swimming sideways and the rest of my fish on the ground so i check my salinity and it was at .18 lower than fish stores!!!! so i quickly add salt and everything starts to look better but i have ich now.i need help what do i do i dont have a hospital tank.im so scared for my fish the hippo mainly because he has it most also he kinda stoped eating so what do i need i really really dont want my fish to die
my number is 954-486-3134 adrian

 

[illal]

first off if ya think u got ich quarentine everyone ....than if i was u id start out by trying hypo salinity....raise the temp a bit and lower the salinity in the quarentine

 

[adrian52492]

hey illal i keep my salitiny at about 26 and temp at 86 and it goes up to about 88 some times and i dont have a quarentine tank can i treat the whole tank?

 

[lpsluver]

If your tank is a reef then there is really nothing reliable to "treat" your tank with that will not kill your coral and inverts. Buying a small hopital tank and moving all of the fish to it is the best idea. Then you can treat with copper for around 3 weeks.

On a side note...your tank temp is too high. 86 to 88 is really pushing it and makes your animals susceptable to disease. Additionally, these elevated temps really impact the disolved oxygen content of the water. If you are able or lucky enough to save the fish then you need to do something about lowering the tank temp. Fans accross the surface or blowing into the sump will reduce the temp 3 to 4 degrees. The temp swing of 2 degrees is okay though.

Good luck!

 

[adrian52492]

hey lpsluver all i have in my tank are some shrooms and a almost dead hammer and a couple hermits im willing to take them out to treat the whole system

 

[lpsluver]

I'm assuming you have live rock in your system. If this is the case then copper-based treatments are to be avoided. You will kill the LR. If your only option is to treat the tank then you can try Kick-Ich or some other "Reef Safe" treatment. I have a buddy that uses Kick Ick successfully in his FOWLR system. Many people will tell you that these treatment don't work but sometimes they do. At the very least it won't hurt your LR. It will drive your skimmer crazy so that will have to be turned off.

If you wind up loosing all of your fish then wait at least 4 - 6 weeks before adding another fish and give the parasite time to completely go through its life cycle without a host (a fish).

Good Luck.

 

[illal]

you dont ever want to use copper in the display even if its empty besides id only use copper as an alternative if the hypo doesnt work..oh yea and if you dont have a quarentine nows the time to get one

 

[gasman059]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9967468#post9967468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lpsluver
I'm assuming you have live rock in your system. If this is the case then copper-based treatments are to be avoided. You will kill the LR. If your only option is to treat the tank then you can try Kick-Ich or some other "Reef Safe" treatment. I have a buddy that uses Kick Ick successfully in his FOWLR system. Many people will tell you that these treatment don't work but sometimes they do. At the very least it won't hurt your LR. It will drive your skimmer crazy so that will have to be turned off.

If you wind up loosing all of your fish then wait at least 4 - 6 weeks before adding another fish and give the parasite time to completely go through its life cycle without a host (a fish).

Good Luck.

There's not such as thing as a safe medicine-PERIOD!
Many many many claim it but its a lie!
THERE'S NOT SUCH A THING CALLED REEF SAFE.

 

[lpsluver]

Like I said...Many people will tell you that there is no such thing as a reef safe treatment. Benefit vs. risk. If you are willing to sacrifice a few inverts and softies than the treatment like Kick Ick may be worth a try. They work by making fish create excess mucus.

Having said all of this I have never had ick in a reef tank so I have no first hand experience only what I have seen in a buddy's FOWLR tank. Prevention is always the best approach and in this case I think the temp is the culprit.

 

[chinoxl3]

Adrian, I hope your fish make it thru this ordeal. 86-88 is a really high temperature for a reef tank and I believe is the reason for the ich breakout. Also, you raised the salinity too fast and this might have contributed to further stress on your livestock. If your fish make it thru, stabilize your parameters before adding anymore livestock. Otherwise, you will have stuff constantly dying on you. Also have you checked your PH? With the salinity being so low, your PH is probably out of whack.

 

[gasman059]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9967902#post9967902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lpsluver
Like I said...Many people will tell you that there is no such thing as a reef safe treatment. Benefit vs. risk. If you are willing to sacrifice a few inverts and softies than the treatment like Kick Ick may be worth a try. They work by making fish create excess mucus.

Having said all of this I have never had ick in a reef tank so I have no first hand experience only what I have seen in a buddy's FOWLR tank. Prevention is always the best approach and in this case I think the temp is the culprit.

Its there! Ich U just have not seen it yet.
I've never seen a tank w/o it! BOLD STATEMENT(REEF)
Its just so hard to qt everything( real life hobby). I really enjoy this part of the hobby as I have a medical background and had the opportunity to go over parasitology and tropical human disease in my formative years
The disease process is very clear.(Cryptocaryon irritans) ciliated protozoan that is present in all saltwater environments. External parasite- fish have a good chance of being exposed to it at some point in their handling and depending on the immune status of the fish, can cause symptoms. Cryptocaryon is an obligate parasite, which means that it cannot survive without a host.???
Rocks fish etc.
Now do we really get rid of all ICH if we QT everything and so forth the asnwer Is is a redundant NO! Even healthy fish carry the process- this is scientifically based and consulted.
Cyst breaks out and looks for a host(UV comes in handy right about now) temp dependent process the warmer the water the faster the cycle occurs.)
Prevention is the best form of medicine but even with full qt AND SO FORTH- AS WELL AS BEING ANAL ABOUT THE PROCESS and I mean ANAL.
U will have ICH in your display at some point in time or another.
I agree with the democrat ( just this one time) nutrition is key and avoid stress for long term success.

 

[lpsluver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9968057#post9968057 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gasman059
Cryptocaryon is an obligate parasite, which means that it cannot survive without a host.???

Ooh I was about to jump all over you until I saw that you added this. . I am a microbiologist by education and vocation so I knew this part. I agree with you whole-heartedly...you can't get rid of the buggers on the fish. You can rid a fishless system of them however...because they are obligate parasites. No host = a disrupted life cycle = no Crypt.

Read what I said again. I said I never had ick (the manifestation) in a reef tank. I never said I did not have Crypt.:rollface:

 

[tperk9784]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9968057#post9968057 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gasman059
(UV comes in handy right about now)

So you are saying UV does help prevent ich from spreading? I always get conflicting information on this one.

 

[gasman059]

I love this kind of threads!
Fish that have survived a challenge with Cryptocaryon irritans can develop some level of acquired immunity for up to six months. However, many fish are not completely protected and can sustain a low level infection; this suggests that an immunological approach such as vaccination may be feasible. Lets start vaccinating all incoming fish!
Bob i don't argue about the posiibility of a fishless system rid of ICH. but cmon man are u gonna QT a fish for 6 months maybe more!

 

[adrian52492]

hi guys ok well i just placed an order for my ballst for my u.v so ill have it next week im about to da a 25 gallon water change and start to feed some garlic and is it normal for the hippo to keep eating even thought he has ich ?i noticed that he goes to the bottom and picks at everything o and all my fish are still eating

 

[Bret61081]

The best thing you can do is FEED FEED FEED IMO. Ive had a few small outbreaks here and there but nothing too major. I also run UV 24/7 too and have seen less since I hooked that up on my first tank. I havent had an outbreak in months and a lot of that I think has to do with the fact my fish get feed from an automatic feeder 4 times a day...Plus every day or every other day they get frozen mysis. The stronger the fish are the easier it is for them to fight it off. soak some mysis in garlic. Ive had great luck with that to help get rid of it. Also try a neon goby. Ive had some clean and some wont. its luck of the draw...Good luck

 

[gasman059]

Re: ich!!!!!!! what should i do

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9967326#post9967326 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by adrian52492
hi all i wake up this morning and turn on my lights for my 55 everything looks bad.my hammer is sceleton,my clowns swimined in all directions,my hippo covered in these little white spots swimming sideways and the rest of my fish on the ground so i check my salinity and it was at .18 lower than fish stores!!!! so i quickly add salt and everything starts to look better but i have ich now.i need help what do i do i dont have a hospital tank.im so scared for my fish the hippo mainly because he has it most also he kinda stoped eating so what do i need i really really dont want my fish to die
my number is adrian

To answer your question Adrian - setup a qt tank and treat with copper, if your fish are healthy enough they will make it, providing they can sustain the stress of catching and QT.
From your description it looks like and advanced case.

 

[lpsluver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9968238#post9968238 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gasman059
I love this kind of threads!
Fish that have survived a challenge with Cryptocaryon irritans can develop some level of acquired immunity for up to six months. However, many fish are not completely protected and can sustain a low level infection; this suggests that an immunological approach such as vaccination may be feasible. Lets start vaccinating all incoming fish!
Bob i don't argue about the posiibility of a fishless system rid of ICH. but cmon man are u gonna QT a fish for 6 months maybe more!

I smell a business opportunity. We can call the company Piscine Vaccines :lol:

6 months? The crypt life cycle is 3 to four weeks. Even doubling that for a safety factor and you got 2 months.

 

[gasman059]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9968263#post9968263 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lpsluver
I smell a business opportunity. We can call the company Piscine Vaccines :lol:

6 months? The crypt life cycle is 3 to four weeks. Even doubling that for a safety factor and you got 2 months.

Yes but immunologically anything is possible. Parasites can survive without a host for 21 days give or take, so a month should put you in the clear, WRONG!
The free swimming tomite has less than 12 hours to find and invade a host fish, otherwise it will exhaust its energy reserves and die. Cryptocaryon can increase in numbers by approximately tenfold every six to eight days. A parasite by definition has a vested interest in co-existing with its host. As long as no unusual disturbance takes place, it will continue its idyllic existence, in harmony with its host.
Burgess, P.J. and Matthews, R.A. (1994). A standardized method for the in vivo maintenance of Cryptocaryon irritans (Ciliophora) using the grey mullet ( Chelon labrosus) as an experimental host. Journal of Parasitology, 80, 288-292.
There's plenty of literature in the Parasitology annals some even suggest non-fish host yikes!

 

[jeffbrig]

Adrian, I feel your pain. I don't know if you saw it or not, but I recently pulled all the rock from my 250g reef to catch all of the fish to treat them in QT.

I ran an ich-free tank for about two years before I had some hitch in on the base of a new coral. Then my achilles just couldn't shake it. After 3+ weeks of hypo, the fish continued to have new outbreaks, so I possibly have one of the rumored hypo-resistant strains.

I switched to cupramine and have been extremely pleased with the results. It's been almost 2 weeks since I started using it, and the fish haven't had any ich cysts in at least a week. I plan to continue the cupramine treatment for 3 weeks total, then hold the fish another week to observe. The display will have been fallow for 2 months.

BTW, I also tried a UV on the display tank before we decided to pull the fish. 38w on a system with 260g of actual water. I continued to see new eruptions every 7-9 days, that's when we decided to pull everyone out. If UV helps,the benefit is only marginal, IMO.