ich

[johnfallon135]

people say even if you don't see ich it can still be there and a outbreak could occur in a year or more from now. if that's the case then how come people don't medicate their new fish instead of just quarantining them since apparently ich can be invisible on fish for years?

 

[ThRoewer]

That's true.
Usually it isn't a good idea to medicate fish without actually knowing against what. And if they don't show symptoms you don't know what to treat against.
Against ich you could do TTM (search the forum for the details) which doesn't require medication. But it only works against ich, none of the other more lethal parasites, and only if you do it right.

 

[snorvich]

That's true.
Usually it isn't a good idea to medicate fish without actually knowing against what. And if they don't show symptoms you don't know what to treat against.
Against ich you could do TTM (search the forum for the details) which doesn't require medication. But it only works against ich, none of the other more lethal parasites, and only if you do it right.

I agree. TTM plus Prazipro is always desirable/essential. Treatment of other issues varies by type of issue.

 

[johnfallon135]

random question is prazipro reef safe?

 

[johnfallon135]

also why does it take copper so long to kill ich ie 6 weeks? does it not kill them in the reproductive tomonts stage or is it simply because the dosage isn't too strong as to not kill our fish?

 

[Spar]

re: prazipro - yes it is reef safe, but preferred that you do its proactively on new incoming fish in a QT rather than the DT... but plenty of people have tested it in their reef and no ill effects.

re: copper - it only impacts the free swimming stage of Ich, meaning post-cyst/tomont stage. for the copper to work you have to wait out that stage. i personally feel you need to do copper much longer for it to work, as cysts can stay dormant for over 10 weeks... by then you may have lowered your copper level.

 

[johnfallon135]

people say they do the TTM treatment for 2 weeks but if ich only stays on for 3-9 days (max) during the parasitic stage isn't only 10 days necessary?

 

[johnfallon135]

if copper only kills during the free swimming stage then shouldn't we dose copper within 3 weeks of a hospital tank instead of from day 1?

 

[Spar]

Ich stays on the fish for up to 7 days, but we add a 4th transfer (or from days 8-12) as in-case transfers. If something went wrong on the first transfer (which really shouldn't happen) or more importantly if any stubborn trophonts stay on the fish for a little longer. the goal is to have the fish completely clean by the end of the 3rd transfer, and then to have the 4th transfer for comfort. You could technically skip the 4th transfer (last few days) but I would highly discourage it... best not to mess with a for-sure thing IMO.

having copper from the beginning is still better as trophonts will start jumping off creating cysts right away, and they will start hatching in as little as 4 days from that point. best to already have copper at the right level before that happens. my struggle with recommendations of using copper is that the fish becomes susceptible immediately upon reducing copper levels... so really you should do a single transfer to a clean tank before the copper is reduced.

 

[snorvich]

people say they do the TTM treatment for 2 weeks but if ich only stays on for 3-9 days (max) during the parasitic stage isn't only 10 days necessary?

There is no synchronization. TTM is for 12 days to ensure eradication.

 

[Deinonych]

people say they do the TTM treatment for 2 weeks but if ich only stays on for 3-9 days (max) during the parasitic stage isn't only 10 days necessary?

The 12-day TTM protocol ensures all trophonts have fallen off of the fish with subsequent stages removed from the aquarium.

if copper only kills during the free swimming stage then shouldn't we dose copper within 3 weeks of a hospital tank instead of from day 1?

Release of the swimming stage is highly variable, requiring prolonged treatment lengths when using copper. You might be able to get away with 3 weeks of treatment, but the recommended treatment length for copper is 30 days. This treatment length does not guarantee eradication due to the variable back end of the life cycle. It is for this reason that many of us (myself included) prefer TTM as the front end of the life cycle is very predictable.

 

[johnfallon135]

how do you clean your filter sponges during each ttm transfer is it really difficult since it's so porous? how do you clean your air line tubing through fresh water or do you just cut a new piece every time?

 

[Spar]

how do you clean your filter sponges during each ttm transfer is it really difficult since it's so porous? how do you clean your air line tubing through fresh water or do you just cut a new piece every time?

no need to use filter sponges. just use airstones for oxygen. anything other than that comes with its complications (too many nooks and crannies, etc).

throw out the airstone and airtube after each use is what is recommended. cheap enough no need to hold on to them. i personally keep the airtube but dry it out for a couple months between use (have several sets).

 

[johnfallon135]

do you guys quarantine any new additional live rock and corals for 3 months as well?

 

[johnfallon135]

dry it out for couple of months? can ich tomonts really live in dry air? i'd think a few dry days would be enough?

 

[johnfallon135]

do you also dip your fishes in something before switching between tanks during the TTM transfer and also dipping before putting back in your main tank?

 

[johnfallon135]

The 12-day TTM protocol ensures all trophonts have fallen off of the fish with subsequent stages removed from the aquarium.



Release of the swimming stage is highly variable, requiring prolonged treatment lengths when using copper. You might be able to get away with 3 weeks of treatment, but the recommended treatment length for copper is 30 days. This treatment length does not guarantee eradication due to the variable back end of the life cycle. It is for this reason that many of us (myself included) prefer TTM as the front end of the life cycle is very predictable.

why doesn't 30 day copper treatment length guarantee eradication? sure the back end of the cycle is unpredictable as it can last up to 3 months in the tomonts stage but if your fish is out of the hospital tank by then it wouldn't matter right? so either way the free swimming ich is either killed or if they stay as tomonts longer they won't have a host?

 

[johnfallon135]

^with that said shouldn't a 12 day copper quarantine be sufficient as well?

 

[Spar]

i personally do QT (via isolation) everything wet for 3 months before putting in my DT, but a lot of people choose not to take this level of precaution... I just have too much to lose (well used to until my tank/glass failed on me... should have had my worries elsewhere I suppose, ha)

to clarify on the drying out of airtubing, I mean i have use a different piece for each transfer, not to be reused during that TTM cycle; it is generally another month or so before I consider adding more fish to the tank... so the airtubing by default dries out for a month or two before it gets used again. i would probably want to wait at least a week to make sure it completely dries on the inside of the tube though... not the easiest crannie for water to evaporate as quickly out of...

post-TTM it is advised to continue QT'ing your fish for an additional 3-4 weeks or longer. So they still are isolated from your DT for a little bit longer. I don't bother dipping them with anything coming out of QT as they should be clean by then. Plus, dips don't help with parasites that are embedded under the skin, like Ich does.

 

[johnfallon135]

would you dip them coming out of a copper quarantine? should TTM be done every 2 days instead of 3 since ich can potentially drop (day 1) and reattach itself (day 3) every 3 days?