ich

[johnfallon135]

do you quarantine your fish for 3 months as well? so TTM for 12 days then 2 and half months of quarantine observation?

 

[snorvich]

Some reading for you.

 

[johnfallon135]

spar? lol

 

[Deinonych]

why doesn't 30 day copper treatment length guarantee eradication? sure the back end of the cycle is unpredictable as it can last up to 3 months in the tomonts stage but if your fish is out of the hospital tank by then it wouldn't matter right? so either way the free swimming ich is either killed or if they stay as tomonts longer they won't have a host?

If a cyst released theronts on day 30, the fish would be infected with symptoms not immediately apparent. The problem with treating only the swimming stage is that it's almost impossible to know or predict when they will be released. TTM exploits the highly predictable phases (trophont to protomont formation) and removes them from the life cycle, preventing reinfection.

Recommend reading this article to familiarize yourself with the life cycle of the parasite. It will answer nearly all of your questions: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

 

[johnfallon135]

If a cyst released theronts on day 30, the fish would be infected with symptoms not immediately apparent. The problem with treating only the swimming stage is that it's almost impossible to know or predict when they will be released. TTM exploits the highly predictable phases (trophont to protomont formation) and removes them from the life cycle, preventing reinfection.

Recommend reading this article to familiarize yourself with the life cycle of the parasite. It will answer nearly all of your questions: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

I understand this but what i'm saying is that no matter what when putting a new fish into quarantine ich will have to drop within 7 days so if you treat it with copper for the full 7 - 10 days the ich would either have died or be stuck to the glass as tomonts where it would be safe to take the fish out?

 

[Deinonych]

I understand this but what i'm saying is that no matter what when putting a new fish into quarantine ich will have to drop within 7 days so if you treat it with copper for the full 7 - 10 days the ich would either have died or be stuck to the glass as tomonts where it would be safe to take the fish out?

Theoretically it might work if you timed everything perfectly under a controlled environment, but IMO it's not worth the risk (and in practice, you likely wouldn't time it perfectly). Minimum treatment length for most parasitic infections is 2x the average life cycle, hence the 30 day period.

 

[johnfallon135]

so are you saying the copper will slow down their cycle? even if it slows it down twice as long it should only take 20 days max then?

 

[Deinonych]

No, the cycle is not slowed by the copper. Treating for two full life cycles (average cycle is ~2 weeks) improves the chances (but does not guarantee) that all swimming stages are killed, as copper is not 100% effective. Again, TTM is the most effective treatment for Cryptocaryon, and has the added benefit that it only takes 12 days.

 

[johnfallon135]

ah I see thanks deinonych! do you know if ich can potentially stay and recycle itself on your fish every 3 days instead of 2 during the TTM?

 

[johnfallon135]

ich can be invisible forever under fish's layer of skin right?

 

[johnfallon135]

also can ich during encystment stage stick back on the fish instead of sticking to other things or does fish's skin coating protect them from the eggs?

 

[snorvich]

ah I see thanks deinonych! do you know if ich can potentially stay and recycle itself on your fish every 3 days instead of 2 during the TTM?

I think you are overthinking this issue. TTM is very simple and very effective.

 

[SNAKEMANVET]

I will be doing the ttm next week.I will add a 5th transfer to give me more piece of mind.A quick question, I will be useing airstones during the ttm.If I were to place the tubing and air stone in boiling water would that be ok to use in ttm

 

[Deinonych]

I will be doing the ttm next week.I will add a 5th transfer to give me more piece of mind.A quick question, I will be useing airstones during the ttm.If I were to place the tubing and air stone in boiling water would that be ok to use in ttm

I wouldn't risk it. Airstones and tubing are cheap - just use new ones for each transfer.

 

[SNAKEMANVET]

Ok, Thanks

 

[microlady]

I didn't use airstones, just tubing that I replaced each time. Two pieces of tubing producing plenty of surface agitation in my case. Be sure you allow everything to dry thoroughly for 48 hours. I even used a 10% bleach solution on the heater and pvc sections.

 

[Spar]

I didn't use airstones, just tubing that I replaced each time. Two pieces of tubing producing plenty of surface agitation in my case. Be sure you allow everything to dry thoroughly for 48 hours. I even used a 10% bleach solution on the heater and pvc sections.

wouldnt the air bubbles coming straight out of the airtube cause some surface explosion? i.e. water flinging all over? I suppose if you have that worked out to prevent splatter outside the tank then no big deal.

the 10% bleach solution is a good extra precaution.

 

[SNAKEMANVET]

I will be doing ttm in 5 gallon buckets,alittle over half full.Hopefully I wont have much splatter going outside of the bucket.I ordered 20 airstones and 100 ft of tubeing and 6 new buckets to rotate out.After the ttm and all the fish are in qt,I will tear down the 75 and setup the 180.