Ich

According to Dr. Peter Burgess, the free-swimming theronts must find a host within a few days, not hours.
He also found that in the cyst stage, where the Ich is attached to the substrate (or coral base/frag plug/live rock) while it divides before hatching, the longest period of survival recorded was 60 days before hatching.

Of course, this is an extreme, so the usual lifecycle of 4 weeks is what most aquarists go by to determine treatment/QT times.
 
You have two different point of views, one trying to kill the Ich and the other trying to concentrate on the fishes resistance to an ich outbreak.

IMO it is easier to concentrate on the fishes resistance than eradicating your tank of ich altogether.
 
Easier, yes, that's true, and that's also why I chose it originally. I'm lazy. :D

Just remember if you decide to go that route, all it takes is a stressful situation (temp swing, new inhabitant, reaquascaping, etc.) to risk causing your currently "immune" fish to lower their resistance and become susceptible again.
(...and after watching that situation recently unfold in my tank, killing off some of mine and my wife's favorite fish, I've made the decision to go with the "nuclear option".)

Like Jess said, there's two different point of views.
Both methods have worked in varying degrees for each of us.
In the end you'll have to decide which method suits you and your situation best.
Good luck and don't be afraid to go post your question over in the Fish Disease Treatment forum http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=87
There's a lot of good info there.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11870142#post11870142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by loyalrogue
According to Dr. Peter Burgess, the free-swimming theronts must find a host within a few days, not hours.
He also found that in the cyst stage, where the Ich is attached to the substrate (or coral base/frag plug/live rock) while it divides before hatching, the longest period of survival recorded was 60 days before hatching.

Of course, this is an extreme, so the usual lifecycle of 4 weeks is what most aquarists go by to determine treatment/QT times.
Click to expand...

Good one. I actually hadn't thought of the cyst attaching to a reef plug. Quite possible. You are correct. I stand corrected.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11870934#post11870934 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralfragger101
Good one. I actually hadn't thought of the cyst attaching to a reef plug. Quite possible. You are correct. I stand corrected.
Click to expand...
thus the statement that u can't never ever be ich free unless u QT absolutely everything that goes in your tank!!!!!!!!!!

So as previusoly stated ich is as common as water in a reef.
 
You SHOULD QT everything. Just because 99.99% of the people don't doesn't mean they shouldn't.

I still believe that it is possible to maintain an ich free tank.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11871461#post11871461 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Beach Bum 70
its part of the hobby
Click to expand...
Not sure what that's supposed to mean when people say it.
Does it mean that you don't believe in QTing your fish or corals?


On a side note, I saw a travel channel special on Europe's largest aquarium.
They were actually holding the new arrivals heads out of the water and forcing them to "drink" bottled FW to kill internal parasites as a precaution.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11871441#post11871441 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralfragger101
You SHOULD QT everything. Just because 99.99% of the people don't doesn't mean they shouldn't.

I still believe that it is possible to maintain an ich free tank.
Click to expand...
Ditto.
 
Last edited:
I still believe that it is possible to maintain an ich free tank
Click to expand...

U can also believe u can shine crap to look good but no matter how much you polish it it will always be crap.;)
 
OK, this whole discussion got me thinking in a different direction for a method of treating Ich that I haven't seen discussed before.

First a basic recap of the parasite's lifecycle starting with the trophont stage of Ich when feeding on the host fish.
Stage #1 - trophont
The trophot feeds for somewhere between 3 and 7 days on the fish and creates the cyst around itself (or whitespot) that we see.
When it's done feeding the cyst bursts and the trophot is free and leaves the fish.
Stage #2 - protomont
At this stage it's known as a protomont and it crawls around the substrate for a few hours looking for a suitable place to encyst and multiply.
Once it finds and attaches itself to a surface it is known as a tomont.
Stage #3 - tomont/tomites
The tomont then starts to divide into thousands of baby parasites known as tomites.
This takes anywhere from 3 to 30 days on average before the cyst hatches.
Stage #4 - theront
Once the cyst hatches it releases the tomites which then become free-swimming theronts that look for a host fish to begin the cycle anew.

Ok, all other methods of treatment are based around breaking the lifecycle at the free-swimming theront stage when the parasite is most susceptible to medications or hypo.
So follow along and let's say you setup 2 hospital tanks.

The infected fish go into tank #1 for 2-3 days. Long enough for any mature trophots to fall off the fish, but not long enough for them to fully complete the next 2 stages of encysting, dividing and hatching.

The fish are then moved to tank #2 for 2-3 days. Again, long enough for mature trophots to fall off, but not long enough for the hatching of theronts.
During this time you would empty and sterilize tank #1 to be used for the next move.

The fish are then moved back to the cleaned and sterilized tank #1 for the next 2-3 days during which time tank #2 is emptied and sterilized.

By the time you are finished moving the fish for the fourth time they should be completely free from any trophonts since they have not stayed in one tank long enough to get reinfected and the trophonts are only known to stay on the fish for 3-7 days at the most.

The upside of this is that it avoids using any dangerous medications that need constant monitoring like copper, it avoids the need to keep the fish in monitored hyposalinity at exactly 1.009sg (which some experts still question the effectiveness of,...just go ask Bob Fenner.), and it completely rids the fish (in theory) of Ich in less than two weeks.

The downside of this method would be the additional stress of the multiple moves between tanks.
Of course if you stop to consider where your fish came from originally, this really isn't any more stress than they went thru to get to your tank in the first place.
Think about it.
#1 The fish was collected from the ocean.
#2 The fish was placed in a holding tank.
#3 The fish was bagged up and transported halfway around the world.
#4 The fish was placed in a tank at the wholesaler.
#5 The fish was bagged and moved to a LFS.
#6 The fish was placed in a tank at the LFS.
#7 The fish was bagged and brought home.
#8 The fish was placed in your QT tank after being subjected to whatever dips or treatments each of you does.
#9 The fish is moved to your display tank.

That's a heck of a lot of moving stress that our livestock survived long before ending up in our final display tanks, and I would dare to say it's a lot more stress than the simple moves between hospital tanks that I'm proposing.

Alright, now that you've heard me out, go ahead and chime in.
This is just off the top of my head and I'm certainly no expert or have any formal education on fish biology, diseases or treatments.
So please feel free to blast all the holes that you can in this idea, or to point out any obvious fallacies and pittraps that I have overlooked.

Right now this is just an offbeat idea that came out of the blue, but I'm severely tempted to setup 4 small hospital tanks in the future and give this a try with some damselfish or maybe even a couple of small tangs just to test it out and see what results.
 
Well after all those movements why do you think fish are so expensive? When the local fish stores and wholesalers are moving them around they are probably loosing alot of fish. There for the price you pay is for you fish and part of the fish they lost. Even if you take the fish out at QT the fish, How do you know theres no parasites already in the sand bed? And when you put the fish back into the tank and all the stress that was put on the fish moving back and forth the Ick is going to get the fish even worse. Now if you leave the fish in and keep them healthy and fed the Ick doesn't seem to phase the fish any and eventually stops getting on the fish.
 
Yes, you're absolutely right, they do lose a lot of fish and coral in transit and acclimation which is then built in to your final retail price.

As for the parasites in your tank, this wouldn't replace the need to fallow the tank to make the tank Ich-free.
Going fishless for two months is the only proven method to rid a reeftank of Ich.
(Supposedly quinine sulfate was a reefsafe medication that killed all Ich strains, including the newly mutated copper resistant variety, but I still had multiple outbreaks even when double dosing with the stuff before I finally set up the hospital tank.)

This would only replace the need (in theory) for using copper, formalin, malachite green, quinine sulfate, or hyposalinity in the treatment of the fish themselves.

I admit on the face it sounds crazy, but it would be pretty simple to setup 4 small tanks side-by-side on a rack (all at the same salinity, temperature, pH), and then move the fish from one to the next after a couple days each.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11872858#post11872858 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by loyalrogue
Yes, you're absolutely right, they do lose a lot of fish and coral in transit and acclimation which is then built in to your final retail price.

As for the parasites in your tank, this wouldn't replace the need to fallow the tank to make the tank Ich-free.
Going fishless for two months is the only proven method to rid a reeftank of Ich.
(Supposedly quinine sulfate was a reefsafe medication that killed all Ich strains, including the newly mutated copper resistant variety, but I still had multiple outbreaks even when double dosing with the stuff before I finally set up the hospital tank.)

This would only replace the need (in theory) for using copper, formalin, malachite green, quinine sulfate, or hyposalinity in the treatment of the fish themselves.

I admit on the face it sounds crazy, but it would be pretty simple to setup 4 small tanks side-by-side on a rack (all at the same salinity, temperature, pH), and then move the fish from one to the next after a couple days each.
Click to expand...
Right ask Jeff if it truly worked for him!;)
ohh crap my PBT/yellow/sailfin/black/blue/genuchantus/goldflake........have ich
let me clean my tankLOL
 
Loyalrogue:

I'm with ya buddy. I happened to make an offbeat comment (not near in that much detail) on another forum discussing what to do about my ich about a week ago.

It simply makes sense to me to remove the fish as soon as the trophonts leave the fish. Why wait to try and battle a thousand more in the next round?

If you do this, I for one, would be interested in hearing your results.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11873124#post11873124 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralfragger101
Loyalrogue:

I'm with ya buddy. I happened to make an offbeat comment (not near in that much detail) on another forum discussing what to do about my ich about a week ago.

It simply makes sense to me to remove the fish as soon as the trophonts leave the fish. Why wait to try and battle a thousand more in the next round?

If you do this, I for one, would be interested in hearing your results.
Click to expand...

Same results I'm willing to bet.
good luck and happy reefing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
White spots on tang
Replies
13
Views
589
Hong Kong
Hong Kong
vini818
Ich cure
Replies
3
Views
297
Dr. Reef
Dr. Reef
Brian60077
Blue Tang best food besides small pellets
Replies
5
Views
167
Brian60077
Brian60077
S
Regal white spots
Replies
7
Views
321
Scotty333!!!
S
R
How long Ich can survive in dry air ?
Replies
4
Views
2K
ReefTankAllTheWay
R
Back
Top