Most of my fish have come down with a nice bout of ich in my new DT. Besides QT, does anyone have any other remedies? I am already soaking food in garlic and vitamin C. I really don't want to lose hundreds in livestock but tearing down my DT to get them all out won't be easy and the additional stress might cause them more harm than good.
Ich
- Thread starter JoeTSI
- Start date
Tomoko Schum
New member
You need to act quickly to save your fish. Sooner you start the treatment, the better off you and your fish are.
Here are some good information on the treatment of Cryptocarion irritans (marine ich):
Part 1
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
Part 2
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php
HTH,
Tomoko
Here are some good information on the treatment of Cryptocarion irritans (marine ich):
Part 1
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
Part 2
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php
HTH,
Tomoko
The0wn4g3
New member
Copper is by far the most effective treatment I've ever used, but that requires QT, and depending on the difficulty of catch the fish, the additional stress usually causes more harm than good.
Hyposalinity would be my second approach, but in a coral tank, this method is limited in its effectiveness.
Personally, I would stick with the garlic and vitamin-C approach. Nine times out of ten is you can keep the fish well fed they will overcome it. If it worsens over the next week, I would resort to capturing the fish and putting them in a QT and treat with copper. A lot of people recommend freshwater dips, and they do work well, but if you can capture the fish you are more likely to save it via copper in a QT tank than with one or multiple freshwater dips.
Basically ideal treatment: copper in a QT tank.
realistic treatment: keep them as healthy as possible
OR, you could buy an African cleaner wrasse!
Just tie a little rope to his tail, and when he's cleaned the tank you can take him out and send him back!
Good luck!
Hyposalinity would be my second approach, but in a coral tank, this method is limited in its effectiveness.
Personally, I would stick with the garlic and vitamin-C approach. Nine times out of ten is you can keep the fish well fed they will overcome it. If it worsens over the next week, I would resort to capturing the fish and putting them in a QT and treat with copper. A lot of people recommend freshwater dips, and they do work well, but if you can capture the fish you are more likely to save it via copper in a QT tank than with one or multiple freshwater dips.
Basically ideal treatment: copper in a QT tank.
realistic treatment: keep them as healthy as possible
OR, you could buy an African cleaner wrasse!
Just tie a little rope to his tail, and when he's cleaned the tank you can take him out and send him back!
Good luck!
The0wn4g3
New member
You can reduce the salinity in the display tank to a point, but it also depends on the salinity that is normally kept in the tank. I keep mine at 1.026, so I could consider 1.023 or 1.021 as hyposalinity. My corals won't be super happy, but they'll get through it ok. I've seen coral tanks as low as 1.017 before.
If you're treating with copper in the QT tank, I personally don't see a need for the hyposalinity as well. The copper alone should be enough to nuke any ich with ease.
If you're treating with copper in the QT tank, I personally don't see a need for the hyposalinity as well. The copper alone should be enough to nuke any ich with ease.
Paul B
Premium Member
Take the vitamin C yourself and make a nice plate of linguini with clams with the garlic because both will do nothing to cure ich.
You need to catch all the fish and treat with copper, not coppersafe or make believe copper but real copper. If you can get copper with formalin it is better. The fish are guaranteed to be cured of ich with copper if you use it at the correct dose and time. If you need to remove the rock to catch the fish, then thats what you need to do. Of course you could just let them die and catch them later.
If your tank is new, your fish will probably die from ich unless treated. In years from now for some reason, your fish will probably not be bothered by ich but for now, I wish you luck
You need to catch all the fish and treat with copper, not coppersafe or make believe copper but real copper. If you can get copper with formalin it is better. The fish are guaranteed to be cured of ich with copper if you use it at the correct dose and time. If you need to remove the rock to catch the fish, then thats what you need to do. Of course you could just let them die and catch them later.
If your tank is new, your fish will probably die from ich unless treated. In years from now for some reason, your fish will probably not be bothered by ich but for now, I wish you luck
Working on setting up the QT right now. Lost my Coral Beauty but I refuse to let anything else perish. I couldn't find Cupramine or other copper treatments at PetCo or PetSmart, so I picked up Lifeguard. I'll be doing freshwater dips, treating with LifeGuard and then gradually bringing the salinity down over the next few days to treat. Thanks all.
It was an anti-ich treatment recommended by our local reputable LFS. I'll see how that works along with elevated temp and hypo. I'll skip the freshwater dip per your suggestion. Thanks!
P.S. On a bright note my new skimmer came in today along with dual media reactor and XM bulbs.
P.S. On a bright note my new skimmer came in today along with dual media reactor and XM bulbs.
jrobison
Member
what reputable LFS? if it isn't copper it isn't the cure. I have had good results with copper safe. If you are setting up a QT you don't need to lower the salinity, you also need to leave your DT fishless for at least six weeks. Do this and then quarantine everything from now on and you will have a much better success rate. Good Luck.
The0wn4g3
New member
How can you guys say certain treatments are useless on ich? Where are you getting this information from?
Garlic is not meant to be an "anti-ich" treatment. It is a method to entice fish to continue to eat, not kill the ich. Vitamin-C, IMO, can allow fish and inverts to recover from injuries, infections, parasites, etc. quicker. Fish recover from ich infections in the wild, and garlic and vitamin-C can be considered two "natural cures".
The prefix "hypo" refers to anything in a lesser concentration than normal... 1.009 is not a magic number. A range of 1.013 to 1.010 can also be effective. Also, hyposalinity is really only effective on the early stages of ich's "life cycle" and mature cysts are usually not effected. From experience I've found waterwater dips to be the most effective and quickest treatment for mature ich cysts on fish, but it is a poor treatment for anything other than mature ich.
It looks like you don't agree Freed. Why do you say freshwater dips don't do anything to kill ich?
In the end, I would treat with cupramine and skip the hyposalinity. I definitely wouldn't do both treatments at the same time. Copper is the more effective and quicker killer of ich, in all stages of its life cycle, unlike a hyposalinty treatment.
Garlic is not meant to be an "anti-ich" treatment. It is a method to entice fish to continue to eat, not kill the ich. Vitamin-C, IMO, can allow fish and inverts to recover from injuries, infections, parasites, etc. quicker. Fish recover from ich infections in the wild, and garlic and vitamin-C can be considered two "natural cures".
The prefix "hypo" refers to anything in a lesser concentration than normal... 1.009 is not a magic number. A range of 1.013 to 1.010 can also be effective. Also, hyposalinity is really only effective on the early stages of ich's "life cycle" and mature cysts are usually not effected. From experience I've found waterwater dips to be the most effective and quickest treatment for mature ich cysts on fish, but it is a poor treatment for anything other than mature ich.
It looks like you don't agree Freed. Why do you say freshwater dips don't do anything to kill ich?
In the end, I would treat with cupramine and skip the hyposalinity. I definitely wouldn't do both treatments at the same time. Copper is the more effective and quicker killer of ich, in all stages of its life cycle, unlike a hyposalinty treatment.
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Freed
It's what it's
Yes, 1.009 is a magic number. Anything above that and the chances that the ich will survive is greatly increased. It's been proven and not a IMO statement.
Freshwater dips only kill some of the ich, not all, in a certain stage of the cycle in certain affected areas of the fish. So it is basically a waste of time when hypo(1.009SG) will do the trick anyways.
What is a waterwater dip?
Freshwater dips only kill some of the ich, not all, in a certain stage of the cycle in certain affected areas of the fish. So it is basically a waste of time when hypo(1.009SG) will do the trick anyways.
What is a waterwater dip?
Paul B
Premium Member
Theone, I can say certain treatments are useless because I have been treating ich for 50 years and I remember when all these "cures" were invented and I have tried all of them hundreds of times in stores and wholesalers.
Fresh water dips will kill ich but only the ich on the outside of the fish, not in the gills where it is killing the fish. The spots you see on the scales are not even harming the fish.
Garlic is used as you say as an appetite enhancer. I don't really think it does anything but I have fed my fish garlic just because I feel it is a healthy vegetable. IMO it will do nothing for ich and I personally have not found it to do anything for appetite. It is sold for that reason but a lot of things are sold in this hobby that do nothing. I have also used vitamin C on my fish for years, it definately is not a bad thing but if you are feeding the fish what they are supposed to eat and not just flakes, extra vitamin C will do nothing. These things do not hurt in any way but I can guarantee that if you put an infected fish in copper, it will be cured in a few days. It is the easiest thing to cure and I don't know why there is so much trouble dealing with this paracite.
If you want to get crazy, you can use copper and quinicrine hydrocloride and cure the fish in a day. It is hard to get and you need a prescription but regular copper works great. I use copper and formalin. My fish don't get ich but I sometimes need to help treat a store.
Fish in the sea all get ich but it does not have to be cured because the paracites mature and fall off the fish and swim away. In a tank, they have no where to go but re infect the fish. Even us as humans all have paracites, some paracites even have paracites.
The0wn4g3
New member
Well a waterwater dip is what's known as a typo. That's when someone typing something on a computer accidentally types the wrong thing.
You say freshwater dips only kill mature ich, just as I did. That is completely different than saying "Freshwater dips don't do anything to kill the ich.". Statements like that are frequently the cause for the spread of misinformation on forums like Reef Central. People scan through and take statements like that for truth, when in reality, it's incorrrect.
Paul, I think you and I just stated the same thing in different words.
I'm pretty sure we can all agree if you are serious about treating ich, use copper or hyposalinity. End of story, really.
You say freshwater dips only kill mature ich, just as I did. That is completely different than saying "Freshwater dips don't do anything to kill the ich.". Statements like that are frequently the cause for the spread of misinformation on forums like Reef Central. People scan through and take statements like that for truth, when in reality, it's incorrrect.
Paul, I think you and I just stated the same thing in different words.
I'm pretty sure we can all agree if you are serious about treating ich, use copper or hyposalinity. End of story, really.
Well, all fish are out of the DT and in the QT. Picked up some CopperSafe today and dosed it tonight. Leaving the tank fishless for 4-6 weeks, which means some coral purchasing and grow out time. I don't plan to EVER have to go through this again, so the QT will remain set up forever. Thanks guys and gals, I'll report progress along the way.
