ick again in large system

[TropTrea]

Okay here is the situation.

I have a system of 310 gallons with a main reef tank of a 120 gallons and a secondary reef tank of 60 gallons. The water is all on one column with a large redfugium and sump.

Two days ago I pulled my blue tang from the 120 gallon as it showed signs of ick and put him into a 20 gallon hospital tank. Last night I noticed the same spotting on my cardinals in that tank and a pigmy angel fish in the 60 gallon tank.

Now these tanks are full reefs with loads of LPS corals and some SPS corals. Therefore treating the entire system with copper is out of the question. Moving all the fish to a seperate system would be extremly difficult as I would need at least a 75 gallon system and that would even be over crowding, plus how long would it take to catch all the fish in a reef if they could even be caught?

From my reading it seems like garlic is my only real option even though garlic alone is extremly questionable as far as effectiveness.

My only option as I see it is to go with the 75 or larger hospital tank. An expense I cannot realy aford at this point. However by the time it is set up and even partialy seasoned I would probably have considerable fish losses. Then to move all the fish I'd probably have to tear apart the reefs to get all the fish out. Also in the reef could the Ick still survive using snails and other inverts as hosts?

Dennis

 

[kevin2000]

To the best of my knowledge there is no consistent effective "reef safe" ich cure .. and some of the so called "reef safe" meds not only don't cure ich but some aquarist have had problems with their corals.

People with large tanks are often forced to go the "chicken soup" route (The combo of healthy food (garlic, selcon etc) combined with low stress environment and focus on maintaining water quality).

If you want to insure that ich is out of your system your going to have to QT and treat all the fish. The main system will cure itself in about 5 weeks without fish (ich need fish to perpetuate their life cycle). Some aquarist with large tanks are forced to use multiple QT tanks to handle their fish - an expensive tank isn't required and even a large rubber maid container will work in a pinch.

Having a mature bio filter is helpful in QTing .. but many aquarist get by with nothing other than water changes. Some aquarist will keep a constant supply of filter media tucked in their sumps .. this media will become "mature" within 2-3 weeks and that media will help give your QT "instant cycle"

Hope this helps.

 

[Pierce]

Not to cut in, but Im in the same boat. Got a 600 gallon and dont want to take everything out to catch all the fish. Would have to drain the water too. Way too much stress on the fish in my opinion. I have 4 heniochus that are the only fish in the tank that ever show any signs of ich. Just a few spots on their tail fins. It goes away, then comes back....over and over and over. Brought the SG to .014 and soak the food in garlic for a couple months, but it keeps coming back. Dont want to go any lower because of the other stuff in the tank.
Never bad, just a few spots at a time. Fish still fat and happy.

Considering ozone.

Any ideas besides removing the fish would be nice, but I think this may be a dead end road.

Maybe we could each try something different and see who's works better....just an idea.

 

[wolf pup]

I have been reading more than a few threads lately about how people cannot get the fish out of their main tank without breaking it down. I truly understand this problem and let it prevent my aggressive treatment of my own tank which then led to the death of 90% of my stock. This has caused me to rethink my own experience and try to come up with alternative solutions. I have not personally tried this but I imagine a solution could be to, patiently, introduce a fish trap, and remove the fish over time rather than trying for the big move. If you have already decided that you cannot "break down" your DT then there is no rush in the process. There is no need to remove all the fish "at once" - set up a 150 gal AGA tub (Basement? Kitchen?, Bedroom?) and cycle it with ICH infested media or get a new cycle going from scratch - you could even put some foam media in your sump, let it grow for a month, and then move it into the 150. Its fish, not corals, going in the 150 so flow can be a few PHs just keep things moving. Use fancy (j/k) PVC as decorations and hiding places for the fish. Drop the salinity to 1.009 (this will blast any inverts if you use LR so be prepared for an ammonia spike.) Then, use a fish trap to catch the fish from the DT at your own pace and put them into a 20 gal Rubbermaid tub (this is a "middle" tank) and drop the salinity in that tub from 1.026 (or whatever) to 1.009. Use the timeframe recommended in the sticky posts. Move the fish (again) from the small tank to the AGA tub and let them enjoy himself. Once all the fish are eventually moved from the DT to the hospital tank (the 150) then you can start a 6 week clock on the DT and run a 6 week hypo on the hospital tank. Once done, raise the salinity in the tub, move the fish back to the DT and bam...you have now cured ich and need never experience it again as long as you QT all new arrivals in your fancy 20 gal. This whole process is only delayed by how long it takes to get the fish in the fish trap. I might be inclined to try feedings in the trap for a week or so w/o actually pulling any fish so they can get "used" to the new decoration. Maybe use a clip and some yummies just outside the trap or target feed some of your favorite food. Unless the fish never eat, I would imagine that eventually (and here is where patience comes in) you can catch anything in a trap. I have obviously never done this, nor do I plan on it, but I was hoping that by presenting a theoretical idea, some might be helped. Prior to treating any fish or moving fish between tanks (QT or otherwise) you should familiarize yourself with all the risks and consequences and be comfortable in performing the activities. I do not condone using ANY of my suggestions unless you have researched documented methods of fish treatment and/or spoken with professionals. Oh, and BTW, I imagine the cost of this entire theory could be kept well under $100 by looking for some used equipment and/or shopping wisely.

 

[KAiNE]

Catching fish -

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...page=25&highlight=catch AND fish&pagenumber=1

 

[TropTrea]

Just a little update. As of last night I'm down to 3 or 4 fish. I have one Sailfin Tang left, one Pigmy Angel left, and one Pajama Cardinal, with a possibility of another Pj. Cardinal hiding in the caves.

Dennis

 

[Spracklcat]

Sounds like it's time to drain that tank. A local club member went through similar, and because he was stubborn ("I can't drain my tank, I won't") he ended up losing over a dozen big, well established (and expensive) fish.

For QT's also, old salt buckets work as well, especially for cardinals which are pretty small and don't swim back and forth a lot. An airstone and the bucket is all you need.

 

[reign]

Im curious why you havent started using ozone or uv to at least cut down on some of the tomites that are free floating since you cannot catch all of the fish....This will cut back on some stress...using garlic and selcon soaked food will help to some degree...IF you could only get all of them out to do hypo in QT!!!

 

[TropTrea]

Why niot drain it? Well look at how much coral there is and how many fish. How long have I been struggling to get some of these corals going. Where do I go with these corals when the main system is drained. And even after a 100% water change would the cysts still stay alive in the calcius live rock, base rock and sand? So to drain the system I'd actualy need two seperate other systems to hold my live stock one for the fish and one for the corals etc.

As far as Ozone and or UV lighting goes. How realy effective are these. Years ago I read a trade magazine article on UV and they had a very through study on the subject. With the mosre expensive system they were able to only effect less than 10% of the microrganisms in the aquarium and those that they reduce were just barely a little faster than the organism was able to reproduce. It mentioned they were better at removing good organisms than bad organisms.

Dennis

 

[wolf pup]

TropTrea,

Draining the tank is only to catch the fish - read the link from Kaine. I think you can trust Anthony Calfo. No one is suggesting that you cause harm to your corals. Once you catch the fish and put them into QT, put the water you drained back into the tank. You don't need to qt anything but the fish. The ich in your DT will die off in time (6-8 weeks recommended, I'd do the full 8 to be safe)

 

[TropTrea]

Now is all I need is something large enough to hold 120 gallons of salt water for 2 or 3 hours.

One of my thoughts was to simply pull the corals and lave rock temporarly and then I'd have an open tanks to catch the fish. Only I hesitate in even disturbing some of the corals.

Dennis