ID Please and Suggestions to Eliminate

[griss]

One urchin per gallon seems like a lot (number of urchins and cost) to me as well. And, wow, they've really gone up in price since I bought mine several years ago. I think I paid around $15 from my local Petco.

Maybe add one. If you see it eating the neomeris, add a couple more and see how they do???

 

[JCOLE]

I would stay away from chemical additives, especially Vibrant, personally. Vibrant kills algae, but as an algaecide, I feel it may also harm the corals' symbiotic algae. If you resort to a chemical like an algaecide, then I would make sure you A) do a very small dose extended over a longer period of time and B) you do not keep sensitive corals like Acros, etc.

I emailed Russ, who wrote the Marine Plant Book, about this algae, and this was his response. "I don't think anything eats the stuff. Unfortunately, manual removal or starving it of nutrients is the only method."

Have you ever dosed H₂O₂ in your system before? I would remove as much algae as possible, spot-dose what you can't get with peroxide, add macros to a refugium if you don't have one to outcompete the algae for nutrients, and add at least four pincushion urchins. Pincushions are excellent algae eaters and will also consume calcareous algae like coralline. With Neomeris being calcareous, I don't see why it wouldn't hurt to try them.

 

[hilde123]

JCOLE, I have never dosed H2O2 before but will research, the following looks to have good info. What type of hydrogen peroxide do I use just stuff from drug store?: Manta Systems

I have a 55 gallon refugium pipe in with my 180 gallon DT. The refugium has a sand bed, live rock, and Chaeto that has been growing very, very, slowly. There is also a myriad of different nuisance algae in there. It is lit with a full spektrum LED light. I have a large protein skimmer that I run 12 hours a day, MRC Reeflo Orca Pro I Skimmer

I am going to proceed with purchasing six Tuxedo Urchins and see if they can help the cause.

JCOLE, can you clarify what you mean by "I would remove as much algae as possible, spot-dose what you can't get with peroxide" Do you mean to do the following?

1. Spot Treatment

Spot treatment involves directly applying hydrogen peroxide to affected areas, allowing for targeted control of algae growth.

Step-by-Step Guide:

• Tools Needed: Syringe or pipette, hydrogen peroxide (3% solution).
• Procedure:
  
  1. Turn off all water flow in the aquarium to prevent the peroxide from dispersing too quickly.
  2. Using a syringe or pipette, carefully apply the hydrogen peroxide directly to the affected area.
  3. Allow the peroxide to sit for 5-10 minutes before restoring water flow.
  4. Caution: Ensure that the total hydrogen peroxide used does not exceed the recommended dosage for the entire tank volume to avoid harming tank inhabitants. Typically 2ml per 10 gallons (38L), but start slow. Start with 0.5ml per 10 gallons at first. If that works well for your tank, increase to 1ml per 10 gallons (38L), etc.
  5. Monitor the treated area over the next few days for signs of algae reduction

 

[JCOLE]

I have used both food grade and drugstore H₂O₂ with no ill effects. 3% from the drugstore should work fine.

The Syringe/Combo I use is no longer available on Amazon but you should be able to order these together.

https://a.co/d/4cturfI

https://a.co/d/itAjs6D

JCOLE, can you clarify what you mean by "I would remove as much algae as possible, spot-dose what you can't get with peroxide"

Manually remove the algae with your hands and use the peroxide on the ones you can't. I would do this a day or so before you introduce the urchins. Once you cut back the algae to manageable growth, I believe the urchins will keep them in check.

If you have a syringe or pipette available, then you can try the peroxide now on one of them to see if it will work. You can dose 20-30 ml of peroxide into your 180 system and should not have any issues. Start with a couple of ml and turn the flow off; squirt a little of it on top and around the base and stem. You should start to see it producing oxygen bubbles. If it works, then it should destroy the cell membrane, and the algae will turn white and die over a day or so.

 

[JCOLE]

Also, I bet your chaeto is growing slowly because of the algae in your display tank. That algae is the dominant consumer of your nutrients. I bet once the algae in the display is eliminated, then you should start to see an improvement in your chaeto.

 

[hilde123]

I have some syringes and needles so tried squirting some (about 4 ml) by a few stalks of the nemeris but nothing other than a bit of distortion of water on end of needle. I then put my finger in the peroxide and nothing, looked closely at bottle and it expired 3 years ago. Probably dead. I’ll try picking some more up tomorrow.

When you say I can squirt 20-30 ml of peroxide at them without any issues is that per day?

 

[griss]

When you say I can squirt 20-30 ml of peroxide at them without any issues is that per day?

I haven’t used peroxide myself but, I’ve read about it a lot and I believe you’re fine with 20-30 ml per day in a system your size.

 

[JCOLE]

I have some syringes and needles so tried squirting some (about 4 ml) by a few stalks of the nemeris but nothing other than a bit of distortion of water on end of needle. I then put my finger in the peroxide and nothing, looked closely at bottle and it expired 3 years ago. Probably dead. I’ll try picking some more up tomorrow.

When you say I can squirt 20-30 ml of peroxide at them without any issues is that per day?

Yes, it is likely expired and inactive as it decomposes into water and oxygen.

Yes, that should be fine, but it's okay to go slow if you prefer. I had a 300-gallon holding tank in the garage last year before transitioning to my new system. The holding tank housed some large coral colonies and fish. The total water volume was approximately 150 gallons, and I regularly added bleach and more than 100 ml of peroxide daily to the system. I wouldn't recommend that, though.

If you manually remove the algae, then hopefully you won't have much left to treat with peroxide. I wouldn't eliminate too much at once, as that can cause your nutrient levels to rise.

 

[JCOLE]

Also, this is why I am against using chemicals unless it is a last resort. This was a small outcome after using Vibrant years ago. Be cautious if you choose to go that route.

 

[hilde123]

Holy crap, I’ll make sure Vibrant is on the bold and underlined don’t use list! I always try to stay away from adding chemicals to control algae, cyno, etc. I’m not thrilled about H2O2 but at least you know what’s in it and shouldn’t do anything more than local damage at small quantities.

 

[Reefing102]

Holy crap, I’ll make sure Vibrant is on the bold and underlined don’t use list! I always try to stay away from adding chemicals to control algae, cyno, etc. I’m not thrilled about H2O2 but at least you know what’s in it and shouldn’t do anything more than local damage at small quantities.

Everything they said is true which is why I only recommended it cautiously.

 

[griss]

I will never use or recommend Vibrant.

 

[hilde123]

I purchased some new H2O2 and using a syringe w/ long needle squirted it in a few random areas where there was patches of neomeris I had recently plucked but the roots and foot were still attached to rock. When squirting the H2O2 into the water in these area I saw no bubbles or any sign it was doing anything. Am I doing this incorrectly? I just slowly dispensed the H2O2 with needle touching areas of the neomeris. Am I supposed to first insert the needle into the stalk then apply H2O2?

One other question, I went ahead and purchased four blue tuxedo urchins. Does anyone know if there is any appreciable risk of them carrying parasites, disease, or hitchhikers that would necessitate QT or can I just acclimate them and drop them in to get to work!

 

[griss]

I purchased some new H2O2 and using a syringe w/ long needle squirted it in a few random areas where there was patches of neomeris I had recently plucked but the roots and foot were still attached to rock. When squirting the H2O2 into the water in these area I saw no bubbles or any sign it was doing anything. Am I doing this incorrectly? I just slowly dispensed the H2O2 with needle touching areas of the neomeris. Am I supposed to first insert the needle into the stalk then apply H2O2?

One other question, I went ahead and purchased four blue tuxedo urchins. Does anyone know if there is any appreciable risk of them carrying parasites, disease, or hitchhikers that would necessitate QT or can I just acclimate them and drop them in to get to work!

I have no experience using H2O2 in a tank so, I'll let @JCOLE chime in

As far as the urchins, I'll be honest and tell you I don't quarantine anything (yeah, I know). But, I believe most, if not all, blue tuxedos are captive bred/raised these days. So, if they come from a reputable source, I think you'd be safe.

 

[hilde123]

Griss, thanks! I'm getting them from Algae Barn, they seem reputable and they do captive breed them.

 

[Timfish]

I'll use H2O2 if I have any hair or turf algae show up. As mentioned above the times Ive had noemeris show up it doesn't take over and eventually dies off. When I use H2O2 first I'll use steel straws with a water change to remove and scrap the area the algae is growing to try to remove as much of the "holdfast" as possible. Then I'll use a syrenge to apply H2O2 to the area by holding the tip against the rock where it was growing, squirting ~1ml, move a fraction, squirt a tiny bit and so on. It is a tedious process and it's important yo have urchins as they scour rock surfaces pretty good. A method that may work a little quicker is to use a silicone cupcake cup, trim it to 1/2" deep then poke the syrenge tip in the middle then hold it against the sruface your trying the clear and squirt 1 or 2 cc into the cup and hold it there a minute or so. Be patient, this process is tedious and it requires herbivores like urchins to keep stuff under control.

 

[hilde123]

Timfish thanks, that was very helpful. The silicone cupcake trick is a brilliant idea!

 

[hilde123]

Ok, got the tuxedo urchins added (four of them), they were pretty small, about 1" in diameter but hopefully they are hungry, productive guys. I will keep doing manual removal every 2 weeks or so to help supplement as I don't believe the four of them will keep up. Will keep posting progress.

 

[griss]

Please keep us updated

 

[Timfish]

For bad algae outbreaks it takes a lot of urchins and time to get it under control. Then when they get it under control there's the issue of them starving. The more manual removal you can do the better but keep in mind essentially what you are doing is shifting the dynamics or equilibrium of the ecosystem. Patience will be a virtue. These links might help you get a better understanding of what's happening in reef ecosystems:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas " This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title. Used copies are available on line and it may be free to read on Internet Archive. both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC (carbon dosing) in reef ecosystems and how it can alter coral microbiomes. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems and are an excellent starting point to understand the conflicting roles of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, aka "carbon dosing") in reef ecosystems.

Delbeek Molar Ratios

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Microbial view of Coral Decline

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges
- YouTube

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)
- YouTube

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching
- YouTube

DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome
- YouTube

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
- YouTube