Iiiiccchhh!!!

[Capt.Nemo]

everybody dead and gone.

been reading the stickies and here is the plan.

since everybody is gone, except shrimp and corals, I am going the Hyper-salinitly route.
I am amidst an RO water changeover anyway. yes, I was dechlorinating, but still using tap for my water. wasn't getting the color brilliance out of coral.....blah blah blah, fixing it now.
while I am diluting old water with RO in 25% increments every week until I am confident I have good water. I am going to raise temp to 82, lower the salinity to 1.009 for a good month. at that point I will begin to raise gravity over the next month.
target date for re-population is going to be Tax day. 4/15 for those non US residents.

if anyone had any suggestions on top of this, without hassling me about the tap water. (unedumacated in the matter), please chime in

 

[A.Astore]

I don't know that you should be doing hypo if you still have inverts and corals in there. If there is no fish left to carry just let the tank sit fallow for 72 days and you will be good to go... pending you don't introduce it again on another fish post fallow period.

 

[A.Astore]

(And the 72 days would only be 5 days longer than you said PLUS no dealing with hyposalinity!)

 

[ThRoewer]

"Everyone dead and gone" makes me doubt it was ich.

Also hypersalinity (up to 50 "°, beyond that it's brine) does nothing to ich - the fish are well preserved before the brine kills the parasites.

Hyposalinity (brackish range: 0.5 "“ 30 "°) is only good to prevent ich cysts from forming (below 1.010 kg/L) - and that ship has sailed as all the ich that left the dead fish has by now formed cysts.
Hyposalinity can also not be used with inverts and corals - it will kill them (there may be some hardy crabs that can handle brackish conditions, but those are usually the guys you don't want in a reef tank).

Raising the temperature also does nothing to ich but may stress out whatever is still alive in your tank.

All you can do is wait it out by keeping the tank free of fish for a good while (3 months or more if you want to make sure the ich is gone)

 

[Green571]

At my limits with ich

At my limits with ich

I have had a bad out brake of ich!!! It wiped out 3 Achilles Tangs,3 moorish idals,regal,3 yellow sailfin and my pacasso clowns so I took advice and broke down tank caught the 3 remaining tangs I had left 1 brown 1 regal 1 yellow sailfin and placed them in qt treated with copper left tank totally for 3 days then replaced live sand put back live rock and ran empty for one month!!! So yesterday tank looked amazing and so did the tangs in qt so yesterday I put brown tank back in tank and yet again ich !!!!!! *** am I doing wrong? Shall I get the brown tang out and live tank empty again for another month? I'm just going to end up with an empty tank forever the way things are going all my water tests are amazing!!! Please help me: I just wanna get rid of the pest the is killing this hobby for me

 

[dweber618]

I have had a bad out brake of ich!!! It wiped out 3 Achilles Tangs,3 moorish idals,regal,3 yellow sailfin and my pacasso clowns so I took advice and broke down tank caught the 3 remaining tangs I had left 1 brown 1 regal 1 yellow sailfin and placed them in qt treated with copper left tank totally for 3 days then replaced live sand put back live rock and ran empty for one month!!! So yesterday tank looked amazing and so did the tangs in qt so yesterday I put brown tank back in tank and yet again ich !!!!!! *** am I doing wrong? Shall I get the brown tang out and live tank empty again for another month? I'm just going to end up with an empty tank forever the way things are going all my water tests are amazing!!! Please help me: I just wanna get rid of the pest the is killing this hobby for me

I don't beleive 3 days of copper would do anything for ich. I've never used copper, but from reading around I see people say they run it for about 4 weeks.

Also, your tank needs to be fallow for a minimum of 72 days. Although your saying you put the sand a rock back in - so I'm not really following what your process was.

Should be: Remove all fish form display tank and place into QT. Leave display tank fallow for at least 72 days. Treat fish in QT (TTM seems to be the most recommended method). After 72 days put fish back in DT.

 

[dweber618]

It wiped out 3 Achilles Tangs,3 moorish idals,regal,3 yellow sailfin and my pacasso clowns so I took advice and broke down tank caught the 3 remaining tangs I had left 1 brown 1 regal 1 yellow sailfin ...

Side note....holy tangs. That's a LOT of tangs for one tank

 

[Capt.Nemo]

I have seen/heard the 72 day remedy from several sources. from these other sources, raising the temperature will only assist in one way, speeding up the cycle in which the parasite evolves in its life and process. that's all I expect from it.

pretty sure it was ich as my fish all looked as if they had dandruff. they weren't all dead at once. only had a few residents. Anthias and Yellow line Chromis (were the last additions to my tank) went first, 2 days apart. they were pale in color to begin with, did not notice any white. Kole Tang was next after 3 days. was flashing and pale in color. leaving my clown pair. by this time, very apparent. broken fins, lots of white specks and cloudy eyes. tried to treat, but knew it was too late. the power heads were blowing him across the tank and he wasn't eating. was pretty much a gonner, so I did them a favor. that sucked, had them the longest.

 

[A.Astore]

I don't beleive 3 days of copper would do anything for ich. I've never used copper, but from reading around I see people say they run it for about 4 weeks.

Also, your tank needs to be fallow for a minimum of 72 days. Although your saying you put the sand a rock back in - so I'm not really following what your process was.

Should be: Remove all fish form display tank and place into QT. Leave display tank fallow for at least 72 days. Treat fish in QT (TTM seems to be the most recommended method). After 72 days put fish back in DT.

Where did you come up with this plan of attack for ICH? The bottle of Cupramine specifically says you have to treat 14 days as well as keep the levels of Cupramine at a very specific level the whole time. This takes a lot of effort to do when you start to account for evaporation and water changes. You will need a copper test specific to the product you treated with if you want to continue the copper approach. I would read up on the ICH life cycle sticky which is either in this forum or new to the hobby I think. I would also read the tank transfer (TTM) sticky because I think it will help you to see how that method outruns the issue. Your tank does not need any sand or rock taken out, ONLY the fish. It then needs to sit with no fish for 72 days to avoid the DISPLAY tank from reintroducing ICH. If you do not treat your remaining fish correctly though they will be able to carry ICH with no physical symptoms should they become immune and you will be right back where you started.

-So, take fish out.
-Read the different stickies focused on ICH so you can come up with a solution that applies best to your situation. (whether it be copper-based, TTM, or returning the fish to a LFS)
-Leave tank with no fish for 72 days.

 

[Green571]

Does the process of tank being empty start again as it has already been empty a month? Or because I added that tang for a few hours the clock resets?

 

[Capt.Nemo]

Does the process of tank being empty start again as it has already been empty a month? Or because I added that tang for a few hours the clock resets?

the disease is in the fish. you returned your fish into a contaminated tank. I would say, you need to start over. treat the fish in QT tank. let the water treat itself by the disease runs its life to non existence. fish are food for the ich.

no fish, no food....parasite dies

 

[ThRoewer]

I have seen/heard the 72 day remedy from several sources. from these other sources, raising the temperature will only assist in one way, speeding up the cycle in which the parasite evolves in its life and process. that's all I expect from it.

Detailed research in that matter has shown that raising the temperature does nothing, not even influencing the speed of the cycle.

pretty sure it was ich as my fish all looked as if they had dandruff. they weren't all dead at once. only had a few residents. Anthias and Yellow line Chromis (were the last additions to my tank) went first, 2 days apart. they were pale in color to begin with, did not notice any white. Kole Tang was next after 3 days. was flashing and pale in color. leaving my clown pair. by this time, very apparent. broken fins, lots of white specks and cloudy eyes. tried to treat, but knew it was too late. the power heads were blowing him across the tank and he wasn't eating. was pretty much a gonner, so I did them a favor. that sucked, had them the longest.

Your description - especially the looking like dandruff and broken fins - and the speed of the spread fits Brooklynella and maybe to a lesser extent Amyloodinium, but not ich. Anthias and Chromis as last additions also raise the possibility of an Uronema marinum infection, though that usually looks different (you better hope it wasn't that).

The ich cycle takes about a week for each iteration. It starts with clearly defined white dots that come and go away 2 to 5 days later if introduced by a new acquisition. After the dots are gone the fish look OK for a few days until the next wave hits. The next wave might be stronger or weaker depending on the fitness of the fish and if they had prior contact with the parasite. Even in the worst case a tank wipeout takes 3 or more cycles which is roughly a month. In an otherwise healthy tank there will usually be some fish who develop enough immunity in time to survive ich without intervention.

My guess would be that you had a Brooklynella outbreak.

Check Google for some images of fish with Brooklynella: https://www.google.com/search?q=brooklynella+hostilis&biw=1321&bih=698&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiV9LeVqunKAhVpsYMKHbnKDVUQ_AUIBygC

 

[Capt.Nemo]

well, regardless, the remedy seems to be the same idea.

72 days....no fish

there seem to be some strong similarities with symptoms. only difference is the white looked more powdery and not filmy or cobweb looking. obviously no sores.

I guess the question is, would the Brooklynella leave the corals and inverts safe?

thinking on taking advantage of the time and curing some more Pukani

 

[snorvich]

"Everyone dead and gone" makes me doubt it was ich.

Also hypersalinity (up to 50 "°, beyond that it's brine) does nothing to ich - the fish are well preserved before the brine kills the parasites.

Hyposalinity (brackish range: 0.5 "“ 30 "°) is only good to prevent ich cysts from forming (below 1.010 kg/L) - and that ship has sailed as all the ich that left the dead fish has by now formed cysts.
Hyposalinity can also not be used with inverts and corals - it will kill them (there may be some hardy crabs that can handle brackish conditions, but those are usually the guys you don't want in a reef tank).

Raising the temperature also does nothing to ich but may stress out whatever is still alive in your tank.

All you can do is wait it out by keeping the tank free of fish for a good while (3 months or more if you want to make sure the ich is gone)

Exactly in all regards.

 

[microlady]

I am very sad to report that even if TTM is followed perfectly, and the fish are kept in a separate room, that 72 days is not always long enough to eradicate it. It is very disheartening.

 

[ThRoewer]

That's why you should try to keep it out in the first place.
Otherwise you have to train your fish to live with it and provide them the conditions to do so successfully.
While the latter is not recommended, it provides a measure of feedback if you are doing a good or a bad job at stocking and maintaining your tank.
A tank wipeout due to ich usually only happens if the fish have compromised health to begin with (or if you are reckless enough to add a fish with a heavy ich infection straight to your DT).

 

[microlady]

That's why you should try to keep it out in the first place.
Otherwise you have to train your fish to live with it and provide them the conditions to do so successfully.
While the latter is not recommended, it provides a measure of feedback if you are doing a good or a bad job at stocking and maintaining your tank.
A tank wipeout due to ich usually only happens if the fish have compromised health to begin with (or if you are reckless enough to add a fish with a heavy ich infection straight to your DT).

Agree, but hindsight is 20/20. All fish were quarantined and treated so it got into my system via live rock or inverts. Now I realize everything needs to be quarantined. I have no choice but to either manage it with my current fish population or sterilize the tank and start all over. The first suggestion is a bit less stressful for now. If I tear everything down and start over, I can tell you that freshwater Angels will be going back in.

 

[microlady]

Or I could be that rare individual that witnessed the parasite encysting on my fish?