In need of a good QT protocol

[Spar]

TT doesn't work for corals and inverts.

^^this

TTM targets the noninfectious stages of ich, mainly cysts (tomites/tomonts) since they 99.9% of the time don't form on a fish itself and is known to take well over 3 days to hatch. since cysts can and do form on corals and other non-fish critters, TTM won't work.

 

[CHSUB]

It's not cost prohibitive? my 10 gal setups are a mere fraction of what the DT tank is. It takes a lot of monitoring water parameters and observation. It's unnecessary? Every LFS I have been to mixes new fish within established coral tanks. They don't have the space nor time to qt. they dump in any available space they can use. They run off central water filtering systems and always have some illness or dead fishes in their stores. I really don't want to argue but I see many issues with your statements CHSUB

i would like to see your 10 gal setup that could maintain that acro for 72 days. Imo, that coral is going to require very strong MH or t5 lighting, as wild acros are very hard to maintain with leds. Wild colonies are mixotrophic meaning it is going to require organic feeding as well as nutrition from its symbiotic zooxs. Parameters stable, very diffcult if not impossible in a 10 gallon, dissolved inorganic nutrients available but undetectable with hobby test kits. Flow random, wide, and not linear at about 40 times turn over minimum. Don't for the chiller because MH get hot, maintain this for 72 day and that coral might survive?

 

[Louis Z]

So newsmyrna and spar so how do y'all QT corals, I use TTM to eliminate the noninfectious stages . As for the cyst stage, I can't come up with a solution. The cysts are tough. I don't think that even the fallow method is guarantee of eliminating cysts. I guess I should isolate for 4 to 5 months in a fish less system and pray that cysts do not survive. CHSUB I said I didn't want to argue but to come out and throw those statements around to new aquarists asking for QT procedure. I use 4 tubes of T 5 Ho lighting . The 10 or similar low size tanks are very shallow and one can raise the coral up to be closer to the lights. I do lots of water changes. It doesn't take much to change 10% to 20% water in a small tank. Power heads like the nano with a foam collar in addition to the HOB filter can provide the flow. I put them on timers. You can add a small HOB skimmer if you don't like wter changes. I did say lots of monitoring meaning water parameters. The impossible always seems to be done on reef central. I have some frags and lps going on the 60 dys right now. I see polyp extension and color . I feed the corals too. I target feed the LPS and anemones, but not every day. I do use coral smoothie also. If you don't like 10 s then try a similar low 20 or 30 gal. There are pages and pages of failures in the newbie section and this fish treatment section Because of non QT. Please look at the chloroquine thread and see how many views and posts there are on it .if that isn't enough evidence for you to do QT then I don't know what would.

 

[tassod]

Well what i am getting so far from all this is making me think that it would probably be a good idea to just take it slow and purchase all the coral I will be wanting for my tank now and get that over with and just start my fallow period when I'm done with coral purchases, this way i wont need to setup a new QT tank for coral and inverts. But that always leaves the issue with replenishing cleanup crews and how to QT those guys...

 

[Louis Z]

I, 2nd the issue with cleanup crews. Snails are often intermediate hosts for many parasites in the world. I don't see why they would be different in marine environments. I have gotten clean up crews from some places that I question after purchasing fish or other livestock from them. We have no way of knowing how or what they mix in their tanks.

 

[tassod]

The place i get my crews from has a separate room with just snails and crabs and cleaner shrimps and nothing else in the tanks, i guess as long as they keep it that way that is my only "safe" bet.

 

[HumbleFish]

i would like to see your 10 gal setup that could maintain that acro for 72 days. Imo, that coral is going to require very strong MH or t5 lighting, as wild acros are very hard to maintain with leds. Wild colonies are mixotrophic meaning it is going to require organic feeding as well as nutrition from its symbiotic zooxs. Parameters stable, very diffcult if not impossible in a 10 gallon, dissolved inorganic nutrients available but undetectable with hobby test kits. Flow random, wide, and not linear at about 40 times turn over minimum. Don't for the chiller because MH get hot, maintain this for 72 day and that coral might survive?

My fishless frag tank is a 29 gal with a 4 bulb T5. I've got a frag rack in there and an MP-10, both of which I can move around. So you're telling me an acro wouldn't live in there for 72 days if I moved the frag rack to the top and had the MP-10 blowing right at it??

 

[Louis Z]

So what would Yall think if I included mollies in the coral QT tank . I think I would have to divide them from coral because they tend to taste everything or they could become snack for anemone. All of their swimming might be enough to induce the cysts into hatching and becoming susceptible to either TTM or chloroquine

 

[HumbleFish]

So what would Yall think if I included mollies in the coral QT tank . I think I would have to divide them from coral because they tend to taste everything or they could become snack for anemone. All of their swimming might be enough to induce the cysts into hatching and becoming susceptible to either TTM or chloroquine

The presence of any fish - including mollies - would render a coral QT useless for the purpose of not introducing fish diseases into your DT. Once converted over to full SW, mollies can serve as a host for ich, velvet, etc. the same as any other SW fish. The reason to go completely fishless in your coral/invert QT is to deny the parasite(s) a host once they require a food source to continue on with their life cycle. Without this they starve to death and the cycle ends.

 

[CHSUB]

I really don't want to argue but I see many issues with your statements CHSUB

you don't want to argue, but want the last word on QT? you can QT sps' if you want and it is a good practice. However, even the "best of the best" acro keepers aren't qt to prevent ich, their doing so to stop acro pests; as most sps' qt systems i've seen are not fishless. i would guess folks who are buying the acro I posted, including myself, are not QTing it. the OP asked for a good QT protocol, and imo he is getting it. i'm simply giving my opinion on the complexity of qt one specific type of coral: a large, wild, colorful acro! as stated it's doable, but imo not advisable unless great lenghts are taken; and ime, given the small risk, unnecessary. others opinions may differ?

i qt all fish, but never qt corals and inverts, and this has served me well!!

 

[CHSUB]

My fishless frag tank is a 29 gal with a 4 bulb T5. I've got a frag rack in there and an MP-10, both of which I can move around. So you're telling me an acro wouldn't live in there for 72 days if I moved the frag rack to the top and had the MP-10 blowing right at it??

no i'm not, just asking a question and providing a counter point!! sounds like a nice system.

 

[Louis Z]

Humble fish. Well let's say the mollies had been treated with meds and are clear of any pests or disease. I have kept a breeding group in a 10 gal for about a year . They were once fresh only until teacher didn't want them anymore. I keep them bare tank with only chaetomorpha in FSW. So if I know the source and keep breeding colony . I can always introduce new ones to the coral QT tank and remove them when I finished TTM . Afterwards I would switch them back over to 100% fresh but not mix them with original colony . Mollies are very useful in getting piscivores to eat . I have caught sargassum anglers that refuse anything dead to the point that they starve no matter how I jiggle the offerings.

 

[Spar]

Humble fish. Well let's say the mollies had been treated with meds and are clear of any pests or disease. I have kept a breeding group in a 10 gal for about a year . They were once fresh only until teacher didn't want them anymore. I keep them bare tank with only chaetomorpha in FSW. So if I know the source and keep breeding colony . I can always introduce new ones to the coral QT tank and remove them when I finished TTM . Afterwards I would switch them back over to 100% fresh but not mix them with original colony . Mollies are very useful in getting piscivores to eat . I have caught sargassum anglers that refuse anything dead to the point that they starve no matter how I jiggle the offerings.

you can't have any fish at any point in a fallow QT environment. the risk is that the invert/coral you are introducing has a cyst (tomite/tomont) on it. once the cyst hatches, theronts come creeping out looking for a fish host. it doesn't matter if the mollies were clean or not before that, they would then become infected and the cycle would continue over and over again, with new cysts forming on the inverts/coral.

 

[m0nkie]

so many tough decisions... I understand both your views.. some people are more cautious with ich, others take some risks.

I guess it just comes down to $$$.. I have my 150gal DT, a 100gal Frag Tank.. a 40gal HT.. now I need another 20gal Coral tank.. another set of AC,everything..

 

[Louis Z]

Spar , let me explain better. I keep mollies in there just enough to become infection hosts to draw the cysts into hatching . Excuse if I am wrong but somewhere in the long threads I think I read that the cysts will hatch if they sense a host. I want them to hatch and come out thus being susceptible to the TTM. If need be run the TTM fo a little longer. And remove them once TTM is finished and let QT run fallow . Well I maybe a little crazy so forgive me if it sounds ridiculous.

 

[tassod]

i qt all fish, but never qt corals and inverts, and this has served me well!!

Would you mind sharing your QT protocol for fish?

 

[HumbleFish]

sounds like a nice system.

Pic below - The fixture cost me $100 (used), plus I spend $80 every 2 years on new bulbs. You'd probably want to change them out yearly for SPS. I picked up a second hand MP-10 for $120, to replace the Koralia you see in the pic.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

It all boils down to how much of a risk are you willing to take. Ich on a vertebrate can be elimated by TT, Brook and velvet will appear within 6 weeks. Research has recorded tomonts to encyst for 3-72 days after they drop off the fish which is why I quarantine all inverts and corals for 11 weeks (10 weeks plus 48 hours for hatching, looking for its host then dying). This time period also allows for Brook and velvet to die off.
After bringing in Brook from a sea urchin I don't take ANY risks. Currently I have an acro and a monti in a qt.

 

[tassod]

Would Prazi pro take care of flukes 100% or is there a risk missing that as well?

 

[alprazo]

For all fish. I treat with Chloroquine, praziquantel and dimilin. This should cover 95% of parasites. Some worms will be resistant to this regimen but typically are not lethal to their host. For new fish in a newly setup bare tank I treat 10 days for CP, 28 of prazi and 60 days for dimilin. If a fish cant go through this protocol it doesn't belong in the DT.

TTM seems to be a favorite here, but it only treats ich. Nothing else. It may delay the symptoms of velvet and possibly confer some immunity tricking you to believe the fish is clear. Once placed into the display the fish becomes a Trojan horse for velvet.