In practical terms can we ever be 100% ich free?

[mattsilvester]

This topic has been done to death in one form another many many times, but here it goes again.

Is it possible for a tank to ever be totally free of "ich"? In practical terms. I would contend "no"; and here's why.

1. Depending of what you read, ich can lay dormant for weeks on end ..... To 2-3 months.... Adhered to a hard surface. In the many fish stores I visit they all keep a small number of fish in the coral systems. So given the high stress high turn over environment of an LFS it seems inevitable to me that ich will be present and hence when you buy a coral and place it in your reef tank you have a reasonable chance of introducing the parasite. I know there are some people that diligently quarantine their corals for 2-3 months but practically speaking most of us are not set up to do that.

2. Ich just not just die out as long as there fish present. In a healthy aquarium with strong fish it may have appeared to have died off but in reality the fish are always "infected" with one or two parasites persisting in the gills etc out out of sight and we are blissfully unaware. Strong healthy fish have a good enough immune system to keep it at bay. Until something goes wrong.

So - my point is that unless we quarantine everything including every rock and coral and snail - for several months then one can never truly be rid of it.

Is that a fair point / position? Again I stress that there people with the time, space and money to do this - but for most people...... Is it not a case of damage control rather than outright prevention?

 

[3dpilot]

So, are you saying that we shouldn't quarantine at all?!

 

[accordsirh22]

if you never got it, you dont have it. your argument is invalid. good day

 

[gone fishin]

I have never had it in my current tank. It has been set up here for about a year now.

 

[JHawlz9989]

if you never got it, you dont have it. your argument is invalid. good day

I disagree. I've got two wild-caught fish and two store-bought fish, of which none have been treated for ich, and only two have been treated for worms. I would be willing to bet my life that ich is in my tank.

With that said, I sincerely believe that Paul B is correct when he says the best way to ensure you don't have these issues is a correct diet. I've since made my own fish food to supplement good pellets, and my fish have never been more active, brightly colored, or otherwise very healthy.

Josh

 

[Lsufiregal]

Any tank can be completely ich free...pour out the water and let it dry out. I guarantee it will remain ich free as long as it is dry. Lol

 

[3dpilot]

I dip corals, quarantine fish (6 weeks+) and a year later I have no ich. I've caught two ich breakouts during quarantine period, so glad they were in quarantine.

However, I believe that you don't really know for sure if you have ich or not in the display (rocks, substrate, etc.) but as long as its not on my fish, I'm good with that:thumbsup:

 

[gone fishin]

IMO if one had ich in the tank then it would be just a matter of time before it presented itself on the fish.

It is proven they need the fish to survive and complete their life cycle. Since I have not had an ich outbreak or seen any signs of ich then I will conclude I do not have any.

 

[billsreef]

QT everything wet, and it can be done. If the amount effort and dedication to do so is worth it anyone is decision that person needs to make.

 

[LeslieP]

Ok, ~15 years ago I transferred fish from a fish only, no live rock tank to a dsb/ LR tank. The hippo tang that had never shown signs of ich for several years came down with it. He was the only fish that showed any signs. It cycled a few times, coming and going and finally disappeared. He lived another ten years with no outward signs on him or anybody else.

Was he cured? I wouldn't say that. It's now 5 years later and no other fish has ever shown any sign of ich. Is ich still in my tank? Most likely as I have never treated for it.

No real question here, just a comment about my very long- lived tank and fish from way back before we had forums like this to help us learn how to take care of our fish.

 

[tmz]

As Bill noted qt everything wet for 100% certainty of keeping crypto caryon irritans out of the tank. Cysts can persist for up to 72 days but usually last only a couple of weeks before hatching . The cysts settle on surfaces.One cyst can produce one to two hundred parasites that need to find a fish in a day or so or starve.

To be very certain but not 100% (nothing is 100%)I quarantine all new fish and treat them preventatively via the tank transfer method. That way no living parasites are coming in with fish which is the major concern for infestation . The chances of introducing the parasite inside a fish are pretty high.

The chances of a cyst coming in with a coral or invert are quite remote given the normal chain of custody and time from the ocean to the tank . They're obviously higher if you acquire an invert or rock from an ich infested tank.

Once a tank is infested , crytocaryon can persist for years if fish are in the tank even if no new strains are introduced. Fish that survive the initial infestation develop partial immunity but still host some parasites in tender tissue like the nostrils, gills and mouth unseen.. They might seem quite normal but a new fish will often be swarmed.This then sets teh stage for further cyst formation and hatching in an exponential fashion which can even hit the fish with partial immunity. Once ich is in the tank the tank and everything in it needs to be sterilized ,completely dried or left fishless for 72 days to be rid of it.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Ich is like oral herpes. Half the tanks have it and you can't really get rid of it, there will be occasional flare ups.

 

[billsreef]

It's easy to get rid of, if you want to bother. Haven't had a flare up in my display tanks in a couple of decades either...but than I QT

 

[jimmy frag]

I disagree. I've got two wild-caught fish and two store-bought fish, of which none have been treated for ich, and only two have been treated for worms. I would be willing to bet my life that ich is in my tank.

With that said, I sincerely believe that Paul B is correct when he says the best way to ensure you don't have these issues is a correct diet. I've since made my own fish food to supplement good pellets, and my fish have never been more active, brightly colored, or otherwise very healthy.

Josh

:deadhorse1::deadhorse1: you disagree that if its not introduced to your tank you won't get it. and the only way to ensure you don't get ich is to follow Paul B,s special diet ? REALLY ! LOL

 

[mattsilvester]

So, are you saying that we shouldn't quarantine at all?!

Certainly not. Not my point. I am a strong believer in Q-tine.

First and foremost, it puts the fish in an environment where it is obliged to eat prepared foods, because there is not a "reef" to forage on. So they quickly smarten up to prepared foods, that in turn ensures fat happy healthy fish - from a dietary perspective.

Secondly, it will greatly reduce instances of disease. Fish are MUCH more likely to show "sickness" in the first 3-4 weeks. Once through that, they are far less likely to develop ailments and they can transition from q-tine to display practically without missing a heartbeat.

The reason I started this, as one poster pointed out, is that a few years back I had an "ich free tank" and q-tined everything diligently etc. and yet one day my tank had an ich outbreak .... so it was in fact not ich free at all. It's just a discussion - not a bait for trolls or an advocacy for not q-tining

 

[NeilFox]

The way I see it. You can have an asymptomatic fish in QT. It is still infected. Unless you treated with cupramine (still not 100% curative), you have now introduced ich into your tank. Even if the tank was Ich free for years. Nothing is 100% certain. QT is only effective on fish that show symptoms. The same applies to rock and coral. They can bring it into the tank. I had an ich outbreak (one fish) after a year of not introducing anything. Stressed him out after moving some stuff around. He hid for a few days and reappeared covered in it..

 

[Meanmike]

:deadhorse1::deadhorse1: you disagree that if its not introduced to your tank you won't get it. and the only way to ensure you don't get ich is to follow Paul B,s special diet ? REALLY ! LOL

Did you actually read what you quoted? He never said either of those things.:deadhorse1::deadhorse1: lol

I never use to quarantine anything until I started keeping tangs (no issues for years) and realized how much ich sucks and now do my best to qt everything.

 

[jerpa]

I think the quarantine processes and timeframes are what need improved. A 6 week quarantine for fish after an initial tank transfer "treatment" coupled with a 3 month quarantine for everything else wet is the minimum if you want a disease free tank IMO.

I think a look at the quarantine process of public aquariums compared to the common protocol of a 4 week observation of fish and dipping corals, or possibly quarantining them for week, illustrates how inadequate many of our standard practices are.

 

[tmz]

Food doesn't cure ich. It's important to have well nourished fish for lots of reasons but crytocaryon is an equal opportunity killer. Fat and healthy fish are not excused. This parasite likes their flesh , gills in particular ,too.

Qt with preventative treatment via tank transfer is near a certainty to remove any ich from the fish. Some strains are copper resistant; some are hypo resistant ;some fish are sensitive to copper . Tank transfer is med free ;it just abandons the parasites in an empty tank.
This well studied parasite only lives in the fish for 3 to 7 days .It leaves, swims to the bottom or other surfaces and forms a cyst which generally hatches in around two weeks multiplying by hundred folds . The new parasites swim out and must find a fish to eat within a day or starve.
Tank transfer(4 moves ,one every 3 days ) is timed to ich's life cycle and simply leaves all the parasites behind in empty tanks which when dried are free of viable cysts as they perish when not wet.

There are many studies , threads and articles on this plague; just search the web for crytocaryon irritans and learn about the enemy. No guesswork or pet theories are needed.

Asymptomatic ich or even mild occasional visible spotting is probably still there once ich is introduced since survivors develop only a partial immunity and host small numbers of parasites,usually in the more acdesible tender tissues of the nostrils , gills and mouth which you don't see. Bet the fish knows they're there. though. A tank kept fishless for 72 days will end it.

I keep over 40 fish including some delicate species like seahorses and ich prone tangs and others . There is no ich and hasn't been any in over 7 years, once I got by early mistakes with garlic, uvs , diet.elixers and so on. I last added a fish several months ago. I have also helped others achieve ich "free" tanks and take in rescue fish.

I can be hard headed at times but after losing some fish to years ago I got serious. I hope others just skip the carnage and take the right steps from the start.
I do a little less than Jerpa recommends ,though . I have no issue with the process recommended. I could do more observation post tank transfer( my usual is 2 weeks after the 12days for tank transfer) and do when a fish exhibits symptoms of other maladies. I do not quarantine coral or other inverts.

FWIW this thread summarizes the methods I use for fish acclimation ,quarantine and preventative treatment:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929&highlight=fish+acclimation+and+quarantine

 

[jimmy frag]

Did you actually read what you quoted? He never said either of those things.:deadhorse1::deadhorse1: lol

I never use to quarantine anything until I started keeping tangs (no issues for years) and realized how much ich sucks and now do my best to qt everything.

OMG, i thought for a minute i said something really stupid, but no wasn't me. thats what was said.