In-wall 380gal tank - cut out options

[woodnaquanut]

I think I've seen Uncle mention that if the main drain is more than an inch below water level in the sump then the siphon can fail. I'm not sure how to correct that situation if the sump water level rises due to a power failure but have wondered about this in the past. I look forward to seeing the resolution.

When the power is off, sump level rises. When power is back on, sump level drops as it's pumped back to DT. Level should be at just about normal run levels when overflow starts.

If Main is 1" below sump at normal run time, when overflow starts the Main will be not to deep and a siphon will start.

Back to karimwassef's tank...

How deep is the Main overflow in the sump at normal run time?

 

[karimwassef]

The main is 1" below water level at normal run and power off. The reservoir in the third stage of the sump absorbs the excess.

 

[karimwassef]

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/?action=view&current=null_zps785da34a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/null_zps785da34a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/?action=view&current=null_zps4458d49c.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/null_zps4458d49c.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/?action=view&current=null_zpsea62f46b.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/null_zpsea62f46b.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

 

[karimwassef]

The left drain is the main siphon. The right is the low flow drain. There are two emergency drains at the other end if the overflow weir. The rings at the end are cut unions I used to adjust the outlet depth by 0.5" (makes no difference).

 

[karimwassef]

Any ideas?

 

[Lavoisier]

Hi Karim, It is hard to tell from the angle of the picture but is it possible that you have a horizontal run of pipe under the tank into the sump. Can you try a 45 rather than the 90 sweep?

I like your sump!

Regards

 

[karimwassef]

DIY plywood epoxy and acrylic sump... Took a little time

There is a 10" run going from the vertical pipe to the sump opening, but how else do I get to the sump?

I don't have clearance for a 45degree but I'll try some bends to see if it helps

 

[karimwassef]

It worked... Not a big change but enough to start the siphon.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/?action=view&current=null_zps797de462.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/null_zps797de462.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

 

[karimwassef]

Thanks Lavoisier

 

[Lavoisier]

Ingenious! I actually would never have thought of a series of elbows. Well done. I'm looking forward to a video of your surges.

 

[karimwassef]

The surge should be in testing by the end of June but the DIY diverter has been running for months now:

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/?action=view&current=null_zps560d9e74.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/null_zps560d9e74.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

There are two returns: one on each far end of the tank. Bottom left and upper right.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/?action=view&current=da07d0a76a9846a61478920b9c74f0da_zps5041c5ef.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/da07d0a76a9846a61478920b9c74f0da_zps5041c5ef.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/?action=view&current=08482cf05bcb48abf0a83d6dcec8c782_zpsf9019191.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/08482cf05bcb48abf0a83d6dcec8c782_zpsf9019191.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/?action=view&current=1dd8f4790f296472f3881dfdc3db4861_zpsd50f005c.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/1dd8f4790f296472f3881dfdc3db4861_zpsd50f005c.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

 

[karimwassef]

I pulled the siphon breaks over the water level to show the flow changing... That's the source of the bubbles in the second video. It's bubble free in normal operation.

 

[karimwassef]

keep in mind the video is only showing the siphon break leakage water. The main flow is through the large 2" outlets underwater.

 

[Lavoisier]

Super DIY project. Your engineering skills are quite apparent.

 

[karimwassef]

Ok. The surge is back on track and I've gotten some local help.

I also got an Apex Controller and it is awesome. Here's where things stand as of today (been months in the making):

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/s2_zps605fdf59.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/s2_zps605fdf59.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo s2_zps605fdf59.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/s6_zps493b882d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/s6_zps493b882d.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo s6_zps493b882d.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/9b588396-01fa-489f-8048-8935a5fc47fc_zpsab64510f.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/9b588396-01fa-489f-8048-8935a5fc47fc_zpsab64510f.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9b588396-01fa-489f-8048-8935a5fc47fc_zpsab64510f.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/s3_zps4244e4f8.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/s3_zps4244e4f8.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo s3_zps4244e4f8.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/s4_zps39d3f6ab.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/s4_zps39d3f6ab.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo s4_zps39d3f6ab.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/s5_zps4fa5344b.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/s5_zps4fa5344b.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo s5_zps4fa5344b.jpg"/></a>

 

[karimwassef]

And here is the actuation and the signals from the Apex. The V3 and V4 create a 2 min repeat sequence (one turns the actuator to open and the other closes again). The V1 ad V2 use a float switch to activate the other valve's sequence.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/relay2_zps501814bf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/relay2_zps501814bf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo relay2_zps501814bf.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/relay3_zpsc43b229a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/relay3_zpsc43b229a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo relay3_zpsc43b229a.jpg"/></a>

This part is still under design/test.

Here is the thread on the Neptune forum for the programming...
http://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...are-circuit-and-programming-help-needed/page2

 

[karimwassef]

And the vids...

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1062.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft496%2Fkarimwassef%2FIMG_0632_zps8628182d.mp4">

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1062.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft496%2Fkarimwassef%2FIMG_0628_zps99c6ebfb.mp4">

 

[karimwassef]

In terms of flow and leakage:

The leakage takes about 2.5 mins to fill a 5 gallon bucket = 120 gph leakage
The open flow at about 3 feet is 2.5 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket = 7200gph surge

Since the final assembly is about 4-5 feet up, I expect to be over 8000gph in actual operation.

You can see the leakage in the first video. It's not small, but it is manageable since the pump filling the surge will be running at 4000 gph (maybe 2000-3000 gph net since it has other flows to feed too: chiller and skimmer).

 

[karimwassef]

The circuit doesn't work with only 2 DC sources. Moving on to 4 DC sources. At $5 a piece, it's not that big of a deal given that I'm driving two actuators.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/relay3_zps215af979.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/relay3_zps215af979.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo relay3_zps215af979.jpg"/></a>

I'm sure someone will figure out a way of doing it with fewer adapters, but may have to use twice the relays...

 

[karimwassef]

Found out that the relay board needs the inputs to be pulled low (to ground) to activate the relay. The Apex generates a 0-10V signal, so it's not working. I'm considering modifying the relay board, but haven't done this before. Anyone have any experience with it?

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/relay4_zps91f02ccf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/relay4_zps91f02ccf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo relay4_zps91f02ccf.jpg"/></a>