IncomeTax time - Am buying High dollar equipment, Please help?!

[grundig5]

Please dont spend $37 on a strontium test kit.

1. Elos test kits
2. skimmer - spend money here - and always keep in mind who is going to help you out if the pump shuts down and you need a quick replacement. ATB Econo or small would be my choice.
3. GEO or litermeter with remote pump and 2 part. I personally hate calcium reactors and you wont truly need one until you have some decent sized pieces
4. 2 vortechs or Tunze 6105s. I like Vortechs
5. Unnecessary. Buy a Tunze osmolator and dump kalk in the top off bin and replace the Tunze dosing pump ($20) every year
6. Buy a controller for sure. AC Jr. is great

Just my opinion, I have personal experience with every product that I recommended.

 

[Runfrumu]

I'd get the kalk reactor. I use a osmolator to top-off, I have the pump in a freshwater bucket running to the reactor then to the sump. It will save you money on having to replace pumps all the time plus I think it will keep some air out which will cause the kalk solution to degrade I believe.

 

[sjm817]

The Kalk does not degrade. That is a common misconception. I use Aqualifters for Kalk topoff. They last years pumping Kalk and even if one fails, its $12.

Reactors can have issues with delivering a consistent saturated solution, and dont allow impurities to settle out. RHF, the guru of Limewater discusses the pros and cons of kalk delivery in his articles, and goes over these issues.

 

[8BALL_99]

I wouldn't buy the pro. Just get the standard AC3. You really dont need the pro. The extra probe connections it offers don't work very well and they are very expensive. Your AC3 Will work as a PH monitor/controller so you dont need a controller for you reactor. It also works as a ATO with just a couple 5 dollar float switches added.

There is NO way I'd get all those test kits. Huge waste of money IMO.. I'd get API master test kit for like 55 bucks and your done.. Maybe at some point get a MG test kit. With a CA reactor your main test will be ALK, Thats about it. I test my ALK once a week or so. CA every month and MG every 3-4 months or so.

Hurricone Cat 1 skimmer would be a much better skimmer for not much more money. If you ditch the AC3 Pro for just the AC3 and just get the API master kit. You won't need the Ph controller so just those 3 would give you the cash for the better skimmer.

Do not buy your Co2 Bottle online.. Go to a welding supply place in your area and price a Co2 Tank.. Most places just exchange bottles they dont refill them.. So your brand new high dollar bottle will end up just getting exchanged for a used one.. I learned this the hard way.. Also Do not buy a Milwaukee Regulator. I also learned this the hard way. Spend another 30-50 bucks more and buy a better one. I think I replaced mine with a ReefFanatic, Really it doesn't matter anything would be better. Just do a search on Milwaukee Regulators.. tons of issues.

 

[8BALL_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14414667#post14414667 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
The Kalk does not degrade. That is a common misconception. I use Aqualifters for Kalk topoff. They last years pumping Kalk and even if one fails, its $12.

Reactors can have issues with delivering a consistent saturated solution, and dont allow impurities to settle out. RHF, the guru of Limewater discusses the pros and cons of kalk delivery in his articles, and goes over these issues.

A Kalk Stirrer does not have issues with delivering a Consistent solution, Its the exact opposite. A stirrer constantly gently stirs the kalk so you get a saturated solution any time your ATO kicks on. Using one along with a AC3 is perfect.. Set the AC3 to only kick your ATO on if your ph is below 8.3. YOu can even set your controller to only run the ATO at night if you want to help control Ph drops at night.

 

[sjm817]

There have benn many people with Kalk reactors who have had saturation issues. I've seen a bunch of such posts in the chemistry forum. I do like the constant gentle stir method that some such as the Aquamedic and Deltec use compared to the timed vigorous stir that are typically used. The people who have the issues are probably using the timed type. If I were to go back to running a reactor for some reason, I would use the constant stir type.

Still, you can just mix it in the topoff, have a saturated solution., or less than fully saturated if you mix in less, with no cost. No extra piece of equipment to buy or maintain.

 

[tonym10]

I will comment on the skimmer part of this thread.
Get the BK 180 mini. I just got one and it is incredible . You cannot even hear it. Plus it is a small footprint in the sump with the pump under the main body of the skimmer.
From the second I plugged it in it started skimming.
I have had a GEO external skimmer and a AquaC in the past and they did not come close to this skimmer.
Here are pic sof my skimmer , just rock in the tank, new set up.
Just plugged in

40 hours

 

[8BALL_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14415031#post14415031 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
There have benn many people with Kalk reactors who have had saturation issues. I've seen a bunch of such posts in the chemistry forum. I do like the constant gentle stir method that some such as the Aquamedic and Deltec use compared to the timed vigorous stir that are typically used. The people who have the issues are probably using the timed type. If I were to go back to running a reactor for some reason, I would use the constant stir type.

Still, you can just mix it in the topoff, have a saturated solution., or less than fully saturated if you mix in less, with no cost. No extra piece of equipment to buy or maintain.

Exactly, I wasn't commenting on Kalk Reactors but Kalk Stirrers. I think Kalk Reactors are a bad idea. Once your ATO runs for a min the soultion isn't saturated anymore and if your pump kicks on while your ATO is on. You could very well crash your tank. A slow Gentle stir is the only way I'd have one..

 

[jnb]

Re: IncomeTax time - Am buying High dollar equipment, Please help?!

1. unsure - my experience wanes beteen batchesNew quality test kits & refractometer.
a. Sailfert
b. api
c. seachem



2. BK180 - I had a BK 160 and loved it - due to my sickness for new skimmers I got a BK180 Gen 2 and love it as much - this after having ER, H&S, ELOS New Skimmer
a. Deltec External Protein Skimmer APF600
b. Bubble King Mini 180



3. GEO - just installed so far - good and I think if you research you will find GEO more highly regarded but even as important to consider is the reg and controllerCalcium Reactor
a. Deltec PF501 Fluidized Calcium Reactor
b. Korallin C1502 Calcium Reactor with Eheim Pump



4. two tunze 6105s on a controller - I have to run mine on 15 volts instead of 24 to keep from blowing too hard - bought these after having the older 6000's - love these even betterNew Wave System
a. Tunze Multicontroller w/ 4 Tunze Turbelle® Stream 2 Controllable Pump Model 6105 @ a flow rate of 792 to 3,434 gallons each
b. Hydor Koralia Wavemaker Controller 4-Way Deluxe w/ 4 Hydor Koralia 4 Controllable Powerheads @ a flow rate of min 550 GPH and max 1400 GPH each

5. I have a Deltec run with litermeter III - and never regretted having it and plan to run it at night only now with my CA Reactor Kalk Reactor
a. Precision Marine Kalkreactor KR620
b. MRC (My Reef Creations) Kalk Reactor

I keep my RODI ATO separate from the kalk reactor/stirrer - to give myself more flexability for tuning ph/ca/alk - I had the tunze ATO but came to like it less than the rest of it's fans because it overfilled 3 times in 3 years - - plus the pump has a life of 2 years and it is submersed - I think there are simpler solutions, which feel more predictable - I switched to reef Fanatics ATO with Aqualifter -

 

[Mpthreer]

Thanks guys! you are all so much more expierenced than me that I get lost almost lol. I have been into the hobby 7 months. I really thank you for all your advice. Its hard for me to pick anyone to believe over another because I havnt seen your reef's. I can mabe go by the amount of posts but even that wouldnt be correct lol. I think the truth is, you are all right as to what you have used and believe in. Which is more than I have right now. So really, thank you all. I want to buy all the stuff right now while i have the money, because if it arises that i need it in the future i probably will have my money tied up in something else like my bills lol.

Ok if you wanna skip the ugly brainstorming rant chatter just go to the bottom paragraph now to catch the sum.

Anyway, As far as the skimmer's go, I'm trying to find something that will fit into my sump, there is a center brace in the sump tank and it really gets in my way. I wish i had more room for an external skimmer but I wanna save money and have something just as effective that takes up less space. 8.5"x14.5" would be hard to fit in there but i could probably make it work even if i had to reconstruct it inside the tank. I might still get an external one to make sure I have enough room over the sump for my refuge though. I wanted to get the kalk reactor to help control the ph, not really for the calcium. People told me this would work well to raise my ph if my calc reactor lowers it too much and at the same time adding the calcium that the reactor isnt producing because the ac3 would cut off the co2 to the calc reactor, I just read that the AC3 would control all this, haha i hope so. I wanted to get a seperate meter for the silonoid on the co2 because I wanted my main ph probe to be in my sump to view the main tanks ph, and the other to read the ph from my calc reactor. Will there be any difference in these ph readings? If so should I use the other slot on the AC3, or should I use one that comes in the calcium reactor kit? 8 ball, y ou said that there is a difference in the meter slots in the ac3 pro? so one works better than the other? I chose the lab grade probes or whatever, i hope thats not just propaganda and it really is more accurate. From what you guys say I will get another skimmer instead of the octopus but I need to know which one to get, I will look at some of the ones you guys suggested tonight and post up a new item list and see what you all think of it . and as far as test kits go I was thinking that mabe I should buy several of them at first, just so i can check everything as I'm learning about saltwater chemistry then once I get comfy I was thinking I'd just keep buying the ones i was worried about, calc and alk or whatever else. As far as the co2 bottle goes, I do have a nice used one that is rather tall and heavy steel, too tall and heavy for inside my stand though, I would hate to accidently be holding it with my arms extended and lose grip on it and drop the freaking thing on my acrylic sump or plumbing haha. Thats the only reason I was going for the small lightweight aluminium one. If I didnt live in an apartment I would cut a room in half with a wall for a inwall aquarium or plumb to a saltwater closet in a nearby room to make plenty of room for a lotta stuff. So for now I guess I'll check my local welding supply places, which i go to quite often for work, and see if they have lightweight aluminum bottles, or if they can just do a refill for me. I think all they have are steel bottles though. I do want this thing to be as automated as possible all around. That way if i go on vacation for a week or two, Then i can just have a friend come over, and add water to my ATO tank and just feed the fish once a day. If i was to ask any more of him than that he'd probably say no due to lack of confidence in fear of trashing my saltwater tank lol. No dosing for him, or trying to make sense of anything.

Ok sorry for the long drunk rant. haha

Bottom line, With the ac3's 1 ph probe, will i be able to tell my calc reactor when to shut off and my kalk stirrer when to turn on. or will i need the ac3pro's 2 probes for that. As far as test kits go. What do I really require so that i can tune in my calc and kalk reactor for my tank and find out how much my corals are using at the moment. (I'm really not to up to par on understanding exactly how the calcium reactors supply nutrients, as for as if they keep the buffered, or if they are more like a top off unit. I understand they break down the media and make the elements available to coral and clams and such but I dont know how they are dialed in.) I just see what the successful reefers are using and I figure that is a good place to start. Same with alk and magnesium i wnat to know how much is getting used and how fast. I will use some kind of mud base in my refuge so that I can take care of trace elements. i also herd of adding some dolmite to my calcium reactor to help keep the magnesium stable. I also want to be able to make sure what my skimmer is pulling out of the water and what my media reactor (phosban and Chemi-Pure Grande Elite) is pulling out of the water. That way I will know if I currently need to run the phosban reactor or not. No problems and I will keep it turned off. Which would be phospates nitrites and nitrates and ammonia i suppose. As far as a skimmer goes, I will check the ones you guys mentioned and go for the best size for my sump, or decide on external, and I'll get back to you on which one i choose so you can stop me once again if i still dont have my head out of my crack. haha Once again guys Thanks a lot! I couldnt do this successfully with out you guys, I'd just blow money haha. Good day

 

[8BALL_99]

Ok lets see, First the lab grade probes are no better. The only difference is they are pressure rated. So if you wanted to mount your PH probe in the CA reactor then yes you would want lab grade.. Other then that it doesn't matter. You can use 2 Ph probes with a AC3 you just lose the Orb probe. Or you can add the expansion box and have both 2 Ph probes and a Orb probe if you wanted. I myself have a AC3 with the expansion box. I have 2 Ph probes and 2 Orb probes connected to mine. I do this cause my use one controller for two systems. I dont have a PH probe in my CA reactor. You dont really want the ph probe to control the co2 to the reactor. If you tune the reactor right its not needed. I'm sure you would wear out the solenoid valve pretty quick that way. My ph probes for both systems are in the sumps. If my PH drops in the tank below a set level the AC3 Turns off the Co2 To the reactor. My kalk Reactors are controlled by the same PH probe.. My AC3 is set to run my top off for 10 mins every hour, But only after my lights go off. Its also set to only turn on if the PH is below a set point, IE 8.3. This way if the PH is high it won't dose any Kalk.

Check around town I'm sure you can find someone who stocks 5Lb aluminum Co2 bottles. Beverage companies also stock them. I use a 20LB steel tank myself cause I got tired of refilling my 5Lb bottle. I just got steel cause they were out of Aluminum first time and the last time I just didn't want to pay the 70 bucks to upgrade my Steel tank.

I do nothing but feed my tanks most days. I do a 10% water change every 4-6weeks and dose some magnesium. Couple times a month I add lime to the Kalk stirrers and maybe once a week I dump my skimmer cups and test my Alk thats about it. If we go out of town I have a couple of automatic feeders I set on top of the tanks. If we are gone more then a week I get my sister to feed the eel.

 

[Mpthreer]

dude 8ball, thanks so much you're more than helpful. Now for my income tax to get figured and come in. That tax guy better have known what he was talking about Cause i'd be heartbroken to only be able to afford half of this lol.

Do you make your ato run at a really slow rate to help the tank stability, and i guess you do it at night to help correct for the ph lowering at night due to not as much photosynthesis going on in the tank, at least i hurd thats why it drops. I usually leave my sump on 24 7 at the moment. And do you have two pumps in your ato resevior, one going to your kalk stirrer, and another going straight into the sump. that way if your tank gets low and the ph is above the threshold, you will pump straight ro water into the sump, but if it is below the threshold then it will go through the kalk stirrer? I dont know if the AC3's programing language can do if/then type statements. I hope it can. Mabe you just time the evaporation rate of your tank? I'm thinking about using some float triggers, one on my water level for topping off, and mabe one on my skimmer to make sure it dosnt overflow.

Thanks again and im sorry for asking you guys so dang many questions!

 

[FishTruck]

You are really getting some good attention here. I am learning stuff!

I am glad you have added an aquacontroller into your must have list. It will serve you well!

Yes. Have your ATO run on the slow side. Especially, if you hook it up to a Kalk reactor. The idea is to protect yourself from a "stuck" float valve.

If you use a single, peristaltic pump, it can "pull" the water out of an RO resevior and "push" it through your Kalk Reactor. It is all plumbed in series.

or

even better...

You can use a two pump system like the TOTM this month. That way, if the pH gets too high in your tank, your AC3 can intervene to top off the tank with RO/DI water instead of Kalk.

A couple of other comments. The timed Kalk stirrer (like the PM one that I have) only stirrs for five minutes, once per day. A tank my size can easily take five minutes of kalk fluff from the peristaltic pump without a snowstorm (it drips it in pretty slowly anyway), but that might not be true for a smaller system. An ATO disaster will crush your tank (and your house), Kalk or no kalk, so build this part carefully. Anyway, you can easily live without Kalk. I like it because I can use less CO2 on my reactor when I use both Kalk reactor and a Calcium reactor. (CO2 refills are the least convenient thing for me, so, I use a 20 lb. steel tank as well).

Regarding pH probes and your aquacontroller.... My PM Kalk stirrer (a maxijet) is controlled by my AC3, which turns on the maxijet for five minutes each day at 10 pm. No pH probe necessary for this. The peristaltic pump turns on and off with a solenoid from ATO.com. Does that make sense?

i.e... The only thing an AC can't do is run a float valve type ATO. At least, I have not figured out how to make it handle that part.

However... even though you can control you calcium reactor and kalk reactor with only one pH probe... I would definitely favor TWO pH probes. One for the tank, one for the calcium reactor. Don't waste your money on the lab grade ones.

I was not aware that you could use the ORP for pH for the neptune aquacontroller! That is a no brainer. Use two pH probes and forget ORP (at least initially). You can add the expansion module of you decide you need pH x2 AND ORP.

Also, someone said that if you use your AC to control your CO2 solenoid, you will wear it out too quickly. This CAN be true. What you do, is ALSO adjust the bubble rate so that the CO2 only turns on and off occasionally. Your AC can show you on a graph how often the solenoid is turning on and off. Just slow the bubble rate down until this is kept at a minimum. Basically, you get the bubble rate as close as you can to perfect and let the AC keep an eye on it for you. There are plenty of people who control their Calcium reactors by different means, I just like to use my AC to do it.

One last piece of advice (for now)... plan to keep your CO2 tank well away from Salt water and creep. If it rusts, they won't exchange it or refill it.

 

[Mpthreer]

Thanks for the input fish, its much appricated!
I'm pretty sure you can use float valves and stuff with the break out box accessory that you can buy extra for the Aqua controller.
happy reefin'

 

[8BALL_99]

NP glad to help, My ATO is a little different. I dont have a holding tank with pumps (anymore) I have two float switches in the sump that connects to the AC3. My RO/DI unit connects to two solenoid valves per tank. The solenoid valves are controlled by the AC3. I just use two in series incase one fails. I use to at one time run it like your talking about. But it took up to many outlets for my ATO so I switched to the current setup. At one time I had it setup so that if the ph was above 8.3 and the Float was open then it would open a solenoid that didn't run through the kalk reactor. If the ph was below 8.3 then it would open the solenoid that ran water through the reactor. This worked very well but it took up two outlets for each tank. Since I only have 16 that became an issue.
I don't have a float switch in my skimmer cups but I have thought about it. It would be nice to have the AC3 cut off the skimmer pump if the cup filled. But there again I'd need 2 outlets for both skimmers. haha at some point I'll probably end up having to buy another DC8 They also sell a sensor called a water bug that you can connect to your AC3.. It will detect water on the floor and can cut off what ever you set your AC3 to. I don't have once since I have a floor drain in my equipment room.

 

[8BALL_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14420703#post14420703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mpthreer
Thanks for the input fish, its much appricated!
I'm pretty sure you can use float valves and stuff with the break out box accessory that you can buy extra for the Aqua controller.
happy reefin'

Yep just some float switches is all you need. here is what mine look like. I use a break out box but really you could just get a cable and do the same thing. The break out box is ok but not really worth the price. I forget the kind of cable the AC3 takes but I'm sure its no more then a few bucks.

 

[jnb]

where did you get those float switches? - the only ones I can find they want the wire protected from salt water with an extra hose/adaptor.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14420964#post14420964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 8BALL_99
Yep just some float switches is all you need. here is what mine look like. I use a break out box but really you could just get a cable and do the same thing. The break out box is ok but not really worth the price. I forget the kind of cable the AC3 takes but I'm sure its no more then a few bucks.

 

[BLANKENSHIP76]

I think premium aquatics sell something real similar, they are reef fanatic replacement float switches.

 

[8BALL_99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14421560#post14421560 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnb
where did you get those float switches? - the only ones I can find they want the wire protected from salt water with an extra hose/adaptor.

Sorry I really dont remember. I bought about a dozen of them 3 years ago for very cheap. That picture is right after I made that bracket. I also use hose over the wire filled with silicone on mine. The tops of the float switches are sealed with epoxy or something. I still think its a good idea to add the hose over the wire and the top of the float.

 

[Mpthreer]

Here's the new list I'm working on. What to you guys thihnk?

Octopus Hurricone Catagory 1 Skimmer
[OCT-HUR-CAT1]
$620.00

CR-GEO-618
618 Calcium Reactor by GEO
$415.95 $415.95

CR-AM76023
Kalkwasser Stirrer 1000 by AquaMedic
$238.95 $238.95

CR-AM77410
Kalkwasser Powder 400 gr.
by AquaMedic
$10.95 $10.95

CR-ARM-LG
A.R.M. COARSE Calcium
Reactor Media 10 lbs. Caribsea*
HEAVY ITEM Shipping Fee: : HEAVY ITEM Fee
$23.95 $47.90

CR-AM77015
Dolomite, 1 liter by
Aqua Medic
$16.95 $16.95

CO-RF-REG
Deluxe CO2 Regulator
with Solenoid Valve
by Reef Fanatic
Optional Equipment: : Bubble Counter
$159.90 $159.90

CO-CL-10
10 lb. Aluminum CO2 Cylinder*
HEAVY ITEM Shipping Fee: : HEAVY ITEM Surcharge
$109.95 $109.95

CT-NS-AC3-DC8-PH
AquaController III w/ pH
&Temp. Probes & DC8
by Neptune Systems
Please Select pH Probe: : Lab Grade pH Probe
$479.95 $479.95

CT-NS-PRBPHS
Standard Grade pH probe
by Neptune Systems
$44.95 $44.95

WP-TS6101
Tunze Turbelle Stream 6101
$354.28 $708.56

Merchandise Total: $2,854.01

I sure hope I've chosen good this time. I would have liked to have the AC3 Pro but for conductivity and some extra ttl devices I couldnt figure spending the extra. I am going to use the wave controller on the AC3 until i can buy the actual tunze wave controller or I will go for the addon that neptune makes. Thanks everyone!