Informal get together for locals

[BeanAnimal]

This is the primary reason I'm not looking to join a club - too many legal concerns, rules, etc.

Ivan - You may not wish to participate in the club, and that is certainly your prerogative. You are certainly also entitled to your opinion, but I am not sure where it is coming from.

Legal concerns - Can you please explain what legal concerns?

PMASI is a membership based club. You give the club ~$25 dollars a year and in return you get to:

• come to meetings and hear speakers from around the country (world) in a venue paid for by the club
• participate in the monthly raffles - many with items PURCHASED by the club.
• occasionally munch on free snacks, pizza and sodas, provided for by the club
• have access behind the scenes tours at the zoo
• participate in subsidized trips to frag swaps and other events
• participate in after meeting dinner and drinks with club, speakers and board members.
• get substantial discounts at sponsoring stores
• have access to an extensive wealth of reefkeeping experience n our membership
• Serve as a board member if you wish
• attend an annual summer picnic, paid for (again) by the club.
• attend and participate in an annual (when there is interest) frag swap
• purchase dirt cheap DIY frozen food that the club makes in-bulk once a year as a fund raiser.
• attend or help with other fundraisers to pay for all of the above.
• participate in decision making meetings, votes, and board nominations.
• etc. etc.

I am not sure exactly what the "legal concern" is.

Sadly, you see it everywhere. Look at kids' sports. Most leagues, clubs, etc. that I've been involved with have turned into nothing more than a power struggle supplemented with hand-wringing.

You will find that most of our club members dislike that nonsense as well.

I have been in the club for over 10 years, and served on the board for all 9 of them. I have served on the board, mostly because nobody else wants to, as have most of the other recurring board members. We BEG people every year to be board members. We BEG people to participate in decision making and ideas. We don't have a power struggle. We struggle to get people to join the board.

I'm also not a big fan of driving to the other side of town for a monthly meeting that may or may not be informative and relevant.

PMASI membership has ALWAYS had a large hand in choosing topics and speakers. To that end, not all meetings are for everyone. We have advanced topics that may not suit beginners and we have beginner topics that may bore advanced members. The club is about more than just the topic of the month. It is a get-together. In most years, the ENTIRE YEAR'S meeting scheduled is posted in advance, and changes or additions and monthly reminders are posted to the website or emailed to the membership. Like anything else, you can pick and choose what you want to attend.

I gotta ask... How do you know those attending the "local meet up" will be informative or relevant and the trip will not be a waste of time

...because they don't come with all of the baggage.
- Ivan

Our club has always been a friendly group of local hobbyists with similar interests who "get together" once a month. Many of us get together more often or attend non club functions together. I have met many friends through the club over the years. Some still in the hobby, others long-gone.

The only "baggage" would be what you brought with you.

I am not sure where your perception of our club has come from, but I would ask you to see for yourself by attending a meeting or two on us.

 

[kevinl]

Ted,
I'm in for the 22nd!
Very much looking forward to seeing your tank & set up!
Can't wait!
Kevin

 

[acer]

Kevinl= great looking forward to seeing you again.

Bean= Quote: I am not sure exactly what the "legal concern" is.

Yes- that was my question as well. Seems a bit far fetched to me. But again. I am no lawyer. So, I did not push it.

I really hope we can get the club turned around to be like it was- I was so shocked, adn a bit sad, to see the lack of posts, and interest, on the website and here on Reef Central when I got back in this summer. Even if Ivan and others don't wish to join the club - I will and I hope to help turn it around so others like Ivan may reconsider. I have to add my 2 cents here: I have never understood why people in this area think that driving "all the way across town" is such a big deal. I mean as long as it is not in a "rush hour". I get from where I live ( Gibsonia) down to Wetpets (Cannonsburg) in less than an hour. So that is 2 extremes going from north to south- and people go way further for sporting events, a concert, etc. all the time. I many cities that drive is considered a real breeze and no biggie.

Several people that come to the "get togethers " say that when they went the club it wasn't all that friendly and they did not feel welcome. I did not have that experience when I first joined many years ago - but I am also a very outgoing social person. So , again- I hope they give it another chance in the future. I feel the "get togethers" are more of a social thing only and the club is more of an organized "club" which has more benefits that just a few people getting together and talking reefing. Each has their place and really should not compete with each other. When I was active in the club following the meetings many of us would go to a restaurant and have a meal and socialize. I don't think that kind of thing is happening now. So, the social part of the club that I got is missing now.

 

[IvanTheTerrible]

Ivan - You may not wish to participate in the club, and that is certainly your prerogative. You are certainly also entitled to your opinion, but I am not sure where it is coming from.

Legal concerns - Can you please explain what legal concerns?

I gotta ask... How do you know those attending the "local meet up" will be informative or relevant and the trip will not be a waste of time

I am not sure where your perception of our club has come from, but I would ask you to see for yourself by attending a meeting or two on us.

Bean,
You asked why energy was not being directed to supporting the club, and I provided my reasons. As I noted, my personal reasons are based on my experiences with other, similar clubs. I have no direct experience with PMASI and have not attended any of the club meetings. I thought my reasoning was clear in my post, but I'm sorry if it wasn't.

Post #93 of this thread states (in part) "meetings that have not been approved by the board are a liability to the club." Those are not my words, and to me liability = legal. I have no idea why unapproved meetings are a liability and a cause for concern, nor do I care to find out.

I have no idea whether or not the "local meet up" will be informative/relevant but I will have less invested (time and gas) since it will be closer. Regardless, it is a nice opportunity to meet fellow hobbyists (something that can also be done at a club meeting) and Ted should be commended for organizing these events.

It sounds like the club has a lot to offer those who are interested. I appreciate the invitation to attend a meeting, but it's just not my thing.

- Ivan

 

[Pittsburgh]

Just in case anyone's interested in the outsider's perspective on the subject.

For the sake of the full disclosure: I've been in the hobby and in Pittsburgh for many years now. I've known about PMASI and this forum for just as long. I have never been a PMASI member.

My initial impression of the club (from reading about it on RC and the website) was that:
- It has a vibe of exclusivity
- It has a hierarchy, regulations and member responsibilities
- It requires membership to join
- It provides certain benefits (those that always stuck out for me were regular meetings, frag swaps and discounts at stores)

In other words it acts like a typical club. Makes perfect sense. Unfortunately for me, it also creates an association with other forms of exclusive club options (Health/fitness, golf, HOA, etc). Since I'm not a big fan of such a format, it'd actually require somewhat of an effort on my part to reach out and find out more about the club in hopes that it'd be closer to what I'm looking for and less of what it sounds like.

So I never did until few weeks ago when I've learned in this very thread about the fragging workshop that the club was offering to everyone at Elmer's. It was a good opportunity to check out the club, so I've attended the workshop, met some club members and had a good time.

So what seems silly to me is not the Ivan's post, but an apparent use of legal reasons in order to deter people from organizing informal meetings, instead of embracing on the opportunity to promote the club and what it has to offer.

I may be completely off base with my outsider's initial impression of the club, but that's what it was and I'd love to be proven wrong. If my initial impression was in fact mostly correct, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the format either, but it may just not be what I'm looking for and I'd like my choice to be respected as well.

 

[vlangel]

I may have been one of the folks who inferred that the club did not feel friendly, although I assure you that was not my intent. I attended club meetings fairly regularly for about 2 years, (I think I paid dues for 3 years) until my mom in law got sick and I could not leave her.

I will say that I struggled to find a place in the club and felt awkward at meetings. It seemed like everyone knew everyone else through this forum. I was a beginner on the internet and I accidently got kicked off this forum by not understanding about posting prices with selling items. I was new to reefing although not new to saltwater and I wanted to learn. I will accept that I was probably too quiet and should have been bolder and more outgoing. That can be difficult though if you are unsure of yourself.
I would like to give the club another try. I have gained a lot of reef knowledge since then and am actually a moderator on a seahorse and pipefish forum so I would be coming in not feeling so inadequate. Also meeting a lot of the folks at the informal meetings has helped me establish some friends in the reefing community which helps too. I very much would enjoy the speakers and frag swaps and other things the club has to offer. I still remember hearing Anthony Calfo speak and enjoyed it a lot.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Post #93 of this thread states (in part) "meetings that have not been approved by the board are a liability to the club." Those are not my words, and to me liability = legal. I have no idea why unapproved meetings are a liability and a cause for concern, nor do I care to find out.

I have no idea what the actual context of the conversation was but assume several issues have been conflated.

Several years ago we had a "new member" from a nearby community who joined the club in an effort to gain exposure for the "club" meetings he was holding in his garage. The garage was not just a meeting space, but was his attempt at running a fish store out of his garage. He attempted to use our forum to peddle his goods and then got pretty ugly when he was asked to follow the forum rules.

Likewise, as I posted above, it is one thing for members to use club resources to communicate and plan events for other club members. It is another for club resources to be used to plan events that do not benefit the club or are targeted at those who do not wish to participate in the club. Nothing shocking (or legal) there, just common sense. To that end, this is a club sponsored forum here at RC - and this thread is welcome

I think you will find most of us are pretty easy going.

From a "liability" standpoint, there is none from the perspective of the membership. I assume somebody tried (and failed) to convey the above points.

 

[BeanAnimal]

My initial impression of the club (from reading about it on RC and the website) was that:
- It has a vibe of exclusivity
- It has a hierarchy, regulations and member responsibilities
- It requires membership to join
- It provides certain benefits (those that always stuck out for me were regular meetings, frag swaps and discounts at stores)

Most clubs have that add feeling of exclusivity when you look in from the outside. I felt the same way before I joined. After the first meeting, I felt silly that I avoided several previous meetings because of that same uneasy feeling.

I assure you, there is nothing exclusive about the club or the members. It is just a group of local hobbyists with a very diverse set of backgrounds, experience, interests and personalities. Many members grab a bite to eat and a beer after meetings. If we host a speaker, they usually join us. ANYBODY who wants to attend is invited.

In other words it acts like a typical club. Makes perfect sense. Unfortunately for me, it also creates an association with other forms of exclusive club options (Health/fitness, golf, HOA, etc). Since I'm not a big fan of such a format, it'd actually require somewhat of an effort on my part to reach out and find out more about the club in hopes that it'd be closer to what I'm looking for and less of what it sounds like.

Not really like any of that Folks jus show up and BS - listen to the speaker or participate in an open discussion, help each other solve issue, then go grab some food and a beer.

So what seems silly to me is not the Ivan's post, but an apparent use of legal reasons in order to deter people from organizing informal meetings, instead of embracing on the opportunity to promote the club and what it has to offer.

The context is now that the club is "using legal reasons to deter people from organizing informal meetings"?

Respectfully, this "legal" thing appears to grow longer legs with each mention. It is complete nonsense.

I have no idea who asked who what, or how it was asked. Somebody either really misspoke, or somebody really misinterpreted something.

If there is a question of using the PMASI FB page or website to promote non-club events to non-club members (especially those who have no desire to support the club), then I think you can find your answer in common sense and good taste, not a law library.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I will say that I struggled to find a place in the club and felt awkward at meetings. It seemed like everyone knew everyone else through this forum.

Actually the vast majority of the club members do not use this forum, but I understand the feeling.

I suppose it (the club) is one of those places where you have to speak up and jump in. There is no arrogance or exclusivity, people just show up to BS and have a good time. If you do attend again, try heading out to dinner afterwards! We would love to have you back. If you have concerns about the membership cost and the year you were unable to use, please send me a PM and I will see what I can do.

I was a beginner on the internet and I accidently got kicked off this forum by not understanding about posting prices with selling items.

We (PMASI) really have NOTHING to do with the rules or moderation of this forum. It is hosted by RC and they make the rules.

 

[vlangel]

Actually the vast majority of the club members do not use this forum, but I understand the feeling.

I suppose it (the club) is one of those places where you have to speak up and jump in. There is no arrogance or exclusivity, people just show up to BS and have a good time. If you do attend again, try heading out to dinner afterwards! We would love to have you back. If you have concerns about the membership cost and the year you were unable to use, please send me a PM and I will see what I can do.

We (PMASI) really have NOTHING to do with the rules or moderation of this forum. It is hosted by RC and they make the rules.

Thank you BeanAnimal, that is very kind of you to look into my past membership fee but that is not a concern. I always felt the membership cost was very reasonable for what we got.

I know that the club has nothing to do with this forum and was not blaming the club. Actually I am not even blaming the forum, but it was frustrating at the time when I did not violate the rules intentionally.

I will try and make a meeting soon. Do you still meet at a Comfort Inn ( I think) off of Rodi Rd.? I was only there a couple of times as you were meeting in Elmer's downstairs most of the time I came. I think I could find it again. I could probably bum a ride from Acer if he is going.

 

[Misled]

Bill, I have to kind of back off on the conversation here because of my position on the site, but I was with Ted and Dawn in the beginning of it. We were really doing this because of not getting any info from the club. We were originally just looking to join back, but because we weren't getting any help, the informal thing started. Perhaps if there's going to be a forum here, maybe having some of the board monitor it to keep up on what's happening here. It might have been nice to go through this four months ago.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Bill, I have to kind of back off on the conversation here because of my position on the site, but I was with Ted and Dawn in the beginning of it. We were really doing this because of not getting any info from the club

Just to be sure everyone understands:

I fully get it... Many of the long time board members are no longer active and the club has suffered. Attendance has been down due to lack of communication, planning, confirmed speakers, etc.

Please don't blame the current board, they are trying to get things back to where they used to be. My post here was solely to remind folks that the club needs help

Perhaps if there's going to be a forum here, maybe having some of the board monitor it to keep up on what's happening here. It might have been nice to go through this four months ago.

I would agree... but therein lies the problem... Most of the folks that used to take of these things are no longer active. I am working with John and others to see if we can at least help them get back on track.

The club could really use interested parties, they need help, not just with membership and promotion, but with planning, scheduling and things like keeping an eye on this forum. I did it for 10 years, but just can't right now.

 

[acer]

I plan on attending the meeting on 11/21( I think meetings are on the second Saturday of the month) - but not sure where or when (Comfort inn on Rodi road at 6pm??). Vlangel (Dawn) - yes you certainly can get a ride with me.

Bean -If you could confirm where and when -please post so we all know.

 

[beachguy]

I propose we nominate Ted (acer) to help re-organize/lead the PMASI club's rebirth efforts with the help of the local folks here on RC he has gathered so far. It was him after all that led to all the renewed interest in getting the informal get-togethers and the steering people to the club meetings. No offense to those on the current board but the enthusiasm level before Ted came along was on life support. The pmasi website hasn't been updated in YEARS. Half the stores on the club sponsor page aren't even in business anymore. Acer seems like my kind of guy. I've never met him in person but I would come to a pmasi club meeting if he was running the show. :bounce1::rollface::dance:

 

[BeanAnimal]

No offense to those on the current board but the enthusiasm level before Ted came along was on life support.

sorry, but that is simply not the case. There a numerous board and club members that have worked extremely hard at keeping the club alive and interesting. Meetings have continued to be held and attendance has been decent, all things considered.

The pmasi website hasn't been updated in YEARS. Half the stores on the club sponsor page aren't even in business anymore.

The PMASI site used to be just an information page that was update with meeting information. Membership asked for a forum because many of them had issues with the rules here (mostly selling related). The PMASI site forum was rarely used by membership OR sponsors. Frankly, it just needs to go back to just an information site with meeting updates and membership info.

Acer seems like my kind of guy. I've never met him in person but I would come to a pmasi club meeting if he was running the show.

Ted, or any other member is free to throw their hat in the ring for a board position. That said, I certainly hope that you would give the club a chance regardless of who instructing the show.

 

[vlangel]

I plan on attending the meeting on 11/21( I think meetings are on the second Saturday of the month) - but not sure where or when (Comfort inn on Rodi road at 6pm??). Vlangel (Dawn) - yes you certainly can get a ride with me.

Bean -If you could confirm where and when -please post so we all know.

Yes, thank you Ted for letting me mooch a ride. I put it on the calender and will plan to attend. If it is at the Comfort Inn, between the 2 of us and map quest we should be able to find it. Dawn

 

[acer]

Beachguy- I thank you for your kind thoughts, but I am the one who quit the club those years ago and left the others to stay and do all the work- so some of its being on "life support" is my fault as it is everyone of the local salt water hobbyists that do not take their turn to help it out. Even if it is just joining ( it is just $25/year), using the website so it gets traffic, and coming to a meeting now and then. I would have no problem helping the club out - but since I an currently not and have not even been a member in years I would feel a bit weird taking any type of leadership role. We'll see when Dawn and I get their next month. I hope many of you "get togetherer's" will show up as well.

I don't think "togetherer's" is a word - but hey - what are ya going to do.

If anybody actually can confirm time/place/etc for the next PMASI meeting place post it here or PM me.

Have a great and safe Halloween people - I am out of town till Monday. Just got my first smart phone -but I am clueless on how to use it - so I may or may not be able to post this weekend.

 

[stikovfunk]

Next meeting is Dec 5. We have always skipped Nov. due to its proximity to Thanksgiving.

 

[stikovfunk]

PMASI BOD nominations is now open. http://www.pmasi.org/frm/content.php?220-Nominations-for-the-2016-Board-of-directors-is-open

 

[stikovfunk]

Just a heads up The Dec meeting is the Mega raffle. We will be giving a ticket for the raffle for every item you bring to donate. Equipment, Coral,fish, inverts etc.
I will post this to the website in a few days.
I want to invite everyone here Member or not to this meeting. Say hello , we are nice i promise!