Informal get together for locals
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JaimeAdams
PMASI
Bean - I will say that I have talked to you at club meetings and you were welcoming and friendly.
To clear up one recurring distinction these so called unofficial meeting are indeed attended by club members and club board members. In fact if we read through what people are saying these meet ups have created more local interest in the hobby and in people coming to the club meetings.
I do not know if someone mispoke multiple times, but the clubs answer has indeed been that the unofficial get together are a liability issue. Not sure if that is coming from Dave or John or who but that has been the official answer.
I along with multiple board members have talked to local fish stores about the club and they stated that multiple people who they sent to check out pmasi have come back saying that they felt out of place or that the club was not friendly. That to me is a failure on our part.
The first 3 years that I was a member I felt like I was in high school with all of the cliques. Everyone knew each other and no one went out of their way to talk to us. This did change when I started going out for food after the meetings. Now my best friends are people who I met through pmasi. I in no way think that we, as pmasi members, go out of our way to be standoffs or mean or elitist. I believe we just hang out and catch up with friends who we see at meetings and newer people just kind of don't get our focus.
Individually we can debate on how we individually have felt or feel, but as someone who is trying to have a successful local club I feel that we need to step back and take in the feedback that we receive and work towards changing things towards the good of the club
To clear up one recurring distinction these so called unofficial meeting are indeed attended by club members and club board members. In fact if we read through what people are saying these meet ups have created more local interest in the hobby and in people coming to the club meetings.
I do not know if someone mispoke multiple times, but the clubs answer has indeed been that the unofficial get together are a liability issue. Not sure if that is coming from Dave or John or who but that has been the official answer.
I along with multiple board members have talked to local fish stores about the club and they stated that multiple people who they sent to check out pmasi have come back saying that they felt out of place or that the club was not friendly. That to me is a failure on our part.
The first 3 years that I was a member I felt like I was in high school with all of the cliques. Everyone knew each other and no one went out of their way to talk to us. This did change when I started going out for food after the meetings. Now my best friends are people who I met through pmasi. I in no way think that we, as pmasi members, go out of our way to be standoffs or mean or elitist. I believe we just hang out and catch up with friends who we see at meetings and newer people just kind of don't get our focus.
Individually we can debate on how we individually have felt or feel, but as someone who is trying to have a successful local club I feel that we need to step back and take in the feedback that we receive and work towards changing things towards the good of the club
JaimeAdams
PMASI
Yeah I missed the previous page of posts before that, damn not knowing how to use taptalk.
Ted - I will see you at your house.
Dawn - I swear that if you come to meetings I will hang out with you.
I love the local get togethers and love the club meetings. I am all about trying to increase interest and support of the club.
Really if people want change in the club or want to see things go differently we need to nominate people for office and be willing to pick up the mantel and do the leg work of making things how members want them. Come and vote and voice ideas, that's really the only way that the club will survive.
Ted - I will see you at your house.
Dawn - I swear that if you come to meetings I will hang out with you.
I love the local get togethers and love the club meetings. I am all about trying to increase interest and support of the club.
Really if people want change in the club or want to see things go differently we need to nominate people for office and be willing to pick up the mantel and do the leg work of making things how members want them. Come and vote and voice ideas, that's really the only way that the club will survive.
beachguy
New member
This was my experience the few times I came to meetings a few years back. Felt like an outsider. Perceived or not it is a reoccurring theme multiple people have expressed on here and talking in person. I am not registered on the pmasi website but I would be glad to nominate Ted (acer) for President if someone wants to relay that info to those in charge. As I said before, I like his demeanor and method of communication on here and the few private messages we exchanged about the group get togethers he seems like a genuine guy. He has definitely brought some of us together on here and I think he would do a good job promoting and making new prospective members feel welcome to the club. Also, I think he would be a good ambassador to getting the LFS in the area involved again. Would be nice to get the club discount program up and running again. The stores I frequent do not participate anymore for what reasons I don't know.
~Ralph
stikovfunk
New member
Yes and yes
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
The point is, that it is not coming from anybody in the context that it has been repeated here.
Not being sure who said what and instead simply calling it "the clubs official answer" would indicate that you (and most of the others here) likely have no idea what was said and instead are just echoing what you read here.
At this point, it would be best to go over some simple facts:
The "I" in the PMASI stands for INCORPORATED. The club is an organization (a legal entity) with a set of bylaws, elected officers, a bank account, insurance as needed, etc., organized as a (non profit) Corporation. In that context, the "club" has the same legal responsibilities and liabilities that would be associated with any other similar organization.
PMASI club members, PMASI board members, local hobbyist's not interested in PMASI meetings, or fish geek groupies looking for a hot date, are ALL welcome to get together and do whatever floats their boats. The "club" has no say or jurisdiction over what they do or talk about, or where they do it. So long as whatever they are doing is not promoted as club function or in affiliation with the club.
The "club" may or may not, at its discretion, choose to be "officially" associated with a given function. It may or may not allow its resources to be used to promote that function. The decision may be based on many factors. One of those factors may be exposure and/or its relationship to the benefits of the given function.
There is nothing shocking or out of the ordinary here, it is is just common sense and nothing different than you will find with any other business, club, or organization.
Somehow. those very simple facts have been taken out of context and twisted and repeated here so many times that we are now talking about the "club" trying to use "legal" excuses to prevent local hobbyist's from getting together or competing with the club. This is complete nonsense, and rather frustrating to have to have to keep addressing.
acer
New member
Bean- that answer was given to me in writing toward the end of August - I know what the context is so don't make it out that I don't.
Frankly - I have moved past it and will therefore, not give out the name of the individual that I interacted with. In my opinion stating that the club has liability if they allow info to be posted about an activity was a mistake - we are all human, so no big deal. Maybe, I should have made it even more obvious that I was not trying to create a competitive "club" and if they would have explained their/PMASI's opinion the way that Bean has, instead of stating that the "club has liability", then we would not be discussing it currently. After reading Bean's thoughts/points I now understand and agree that the Club is better served by not allowing me or anybody else to post on the PMASI website or Facebook page anything that is not in the best interest of the club. So, I guess if the club felt that the "get togethers" were not in the best interest of the club- then they certainly have the right to not allow info about them to be posted on their website and Facebook page. After all people- just because I said I am not trying to compete against the club, doesn't mean that is true - the current club leadership does not know me and I don't know them.
I guess that is the real question - now isn't it. What is in the best interest of the club?
When I got back into the hobby in July there was literally NO activity on the PMASI website and very little here on R/C. The website was even down most the time, I could not even find out when and where the meetings were scheduled- it wasn't posted on the website or Facebook page. I could not rejoin remotely. I made several attempts to make any contact with the club prior to starting this thread in July ( see page 1 of this thread to confirm the date) . This "get together " thread/idea was not started to compete with PMASI in any way. Rather, for me to start to get to know the local people that are in the hobby and to get some activity and interest in the local community again - which would then help the club. I had no idea why the website was not working , I got no responses from the numerous emails, PM's ,etc. I send out in August to you and many others on different websites that I used to know when I was active in the club. Obviously, you and the others did not have any responsibility to answer me- but I was "out there" and did not even know if the club still really existed at all. So, again that is why I/we started the "get togethers" and attempted to post info for them on the PMASI website and Facebook page. My posts were taken down - so I asked why and that is when I got the "club liability" answer.
Again -- people "let it go" and lets move on toward making our local aquarium reef community strong again. Bickering about who said what ,etc. is not going to help.
I am now looking forward to joining the club at the December meeting and if I remember the raffle meetings were always a lot of fun. I am not sure I can remember the raffle rules so someone please post if I am incorrect. I remember that it is a "Chinese type auction/raffle" so when you buy tickets ( costs=?), you put them ( one or several or all you have bought) in a container that is associated with the donated piece of equipment, frag , or whatever that you want to win. So, the more tickets you put in any one container - the better the chances that your ticket will be pulled and you will win the item. After a certain amount of time - the auction is done and you can't buy anymore tickets and a warning is given to place all tickets. Then someone picks one ticket from each container - and announces the winning tickets number. If that number matches one of the tickets you bought - then you win the item. So, you get to talk and mingle while deciding which containers item you want to put your tickets into. By the way, to whom can people contact about what they are donating? I see on the PMASI website and Facebook page it announces the upcoming raffle meeting now- but not how to let the club know what your are donating. Or do you just wait an see what shows up at the meeting and go from there?
Again, it is my opinion that the club and the "get togethers" are different enough from each other that they should not compete against one another. I, personally, will do both as much as possible - sometimes Saturdays are really bad for me- so I can fall back on the monthly "get together" to see my fellow hobbyists. Or maybe I can make the official club meeting , but not the "get together". I just don't see the conflict.
Frankly - I have moved past it and will therefore, not give out the name of the individual that I interacted with. In my opinion stating that the club has liability if they allow info to be posted about an activity was a mistake - we are all human, so no big deal. Maybe, I should have made it even more obvious that I was not trying to create a competitive "club" and if they would have explained their/PMASI's opinion the way that Bean has, instead of stating that the "club has liability", then we would not be discussing it currently. After reading Bean's thoughts/points I now understand and agree that the Club is better served by not allowing me or anybody else to post on the PMASI website or Facebook page anything that is not in the best interest of the club. So, I guess if the club felt that the "get togethers" were not in the best interest of the club- then they certainly have the right to not allow info about them to be posted on their website and Facebook page. After all people- just because I said I am not trying to compete against the club, doesn't mean that is true - the current club leadership does not know me and I don't know them.
I guess that is the real question - now isn't it. What is in the best interest of the club?
When I got back into the hobby in July there was literally NO activity on the PMASI website and very little here on R/C. The website was even down most the time, I could not even find out when and where the meetings were scheduled- it wasn't posted on the website or Facebook page. I could not rejoin remotely. I made several attempts to make any contact with the club prior to starting this thread in July ( see page 1 of this thread to confirm the date) . This "get together " thread/idea was not started to compete with PMASI in any way. Rather, for me to start to get to know the local people that are in the hobby and to get some activity and interest in the local community again - which would then help the club. I had no idea why the website was not working , I got no responses from the numerous emails, PM's ,etc. I send out in August to you and many others on different websites that I used to know when I was active in the club. Obviously, you and the others did not have any responsibility to answer me- but I was "out there" and did not even know if the club still really existed at all. So, again that is why I/we started the "get togethers" and attempted to post info for them on the PMASI website and Facebook page. My posts were taken down - so I asked why and that is when I got the "club liability" answer.
Again -- people "let it go" and lets move on toward making our local aquarium reef community strong again. Bickering about who said what ,etc. is not going to help.
I am now looking forward to joining the club at the December meeting and if I remember the raffle meetings were always a lot of fun. I am not sure I can remember the raffle rules so someone please post if I am incorrect. I remember that it is a "Chinese type auction/raffle" so when you buy tickets ( costs=?), you put them ( one or several or all you have bought) in a container that is associated with the donated piece of equipment, frag , or whatever that you want to win. So, the more tickets you put in any one container - the better the chances that your ticket will be pulled and you will win the item. After a certain amount of time - the auction is done and you can't buy anymore tickets and a warning is given to place all tickets. Then someone picks one ticket from each container - and announces the winning tickets number. If that number matches one of the tickets you bought - then you win the item. So, you get to talk and mingle while deciding which containers item you want to put your tickets into. By the way, to whom can people contact about what they are donating? I see on the PMASI website and Facebook page it announces the upcoming raffle meeting now- but not how to let the club know what your are donating. Or do you just wait an see what shows up at the meeting and go from there?
Again, it is my opinion that the club and the "get togethers" are different enough from each other that they should not compete against one another. I, personally, will do both as much as possible - sometimes Saturdays are really bad for me- so I can fall back on the monthly "get together" to see my fellow hobbyists. Or maybe I can make the official club meeting , but not the "get together". I just don't see the conflict.
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JaimeAdams
PMASI
Bean - I am not echoing what other people have said. I saw what I said first hand. I do agree that it's certainly beating a dead horse at this point.
I plan on attending all and any official or unofficial or however labeled meetings, get togethers, hang outs, pizza parties ... whatever the heck someone wants to call it. I love fragging coral and giving them away. I love hanging out and chatting about the hobby so if I am invited and there is something going on then I will be there.
So let's move on and get back to talking about hanging on.
I plan on attending all and any official or unofficial or however labeled meetings, get togethers, hang outs, pizza parties ... whatever the heck someone wants to call it. I love fragging coral and giving them away. I love hanging out and chatting about the hobby so if I am invited and there is something going on then I will be there.
So let's move on and get back to talking about hanging on.
acer
New member
+1 Jamie- that is exactly how I think.
By the way the official PMASI website while "up", it doesn't seem to function well- I cant start a knew thread. I was going to start a thread asking everyone to list what they plan on bringing to the next PMASI meeting for the auction. That way we don't have 10 frags of Green Star Polyps. I guess we can just do that thread here on R/C if someone wants to start it- or by suggesting that we know whats coming does anybody think it takes away some of the fun of the meeting? Let me know.
Have only a few people saying they will be at my place for the next get together = 11/22/15 - Steelers have a bye that day so we can do this any time in the after noon or early evening. If anybody knows they will or will not make it please let me know. I am thinking about making some venison chili - so need to know how big of a batch to make.
By the way the official PMASI website while "up", it doesn't seem to function well- I cant start a knew thread. I was going to start a thread asking everyone to list what they plan on bringing to the next PMASI meeting for the auction. That way we don't have 10 frags of Green Star Polyps. I guess we can just do that thread here on R/C if someone wants to start it- or by suggesting that we know whats coming does anybody think it takes away some of the fun of the meeting? Let me know.
Have only a few people saying they will be at my place for the next get together = 11/22/15 - Steelers have a bye that day so we can do this any time in the after noon or early evening. If anybody knows they will or will not make it please let me know. I am thinking about making some venison chili - so need to know how big of a batch to make.
acer
New member
OK - I was finally able to rejoin the club on the website. Apparently - Firefox does not play well with the PMASI website. That is why I could not rejoin before and I was always thinking it was the PMASI website not working properly. SO, after talking to Jamie who just rejoined on the website, I attempted again and failed because there was no link to be able to pay, the link just did not show up. Jamie's wife then send me a link and we communicated on Facebook - it still failed until I decided to try with a different browser- and sure enough when I went to the PMASI website using Chrome the link on how to pay to rejoin appeared. I do not know why it doesn't work when using Firefox. Anyhow- for anyone that may be trying to join or rejoin using Firefox- just try a different browser and you may have better luck. SO , now I am an official member of PMASI again and was able to start a new thread and hopefully get some activity on that website.
Dawn- no meeting until Dec - I can still drive and can pick you up. Details can be discussed at the "get together" at my place.
Dawn- no meeting until Dec - I can still drive and can pick you up. Details can be discussed at the "get together" at my place.
vlangel
Premium Member
Thank you Ted, I have been following along even though I am on vacation this week. I would like to accompany you to the Dec meeting but I am not sure of my schedule yet. I will let you know. What is the date of the get together at your house? I want to make sure I go to that as well.
vlangel
Premium Member
That's what I thought. Thanks Ted. Do you mind pm-ing me the address? I am planning on coming to your house for sure. It is probably on my calendar at home already, ha ha.
stikovfunk
New member
Here is the link for the Dec. PMASI raffle and pizza party. I am inviting everyone member or not to attend.
http://www.pmasi.org/frm/content.php?222-Dec-Raffle-and-Pizza-party!
http://www.pmasi.org/frm/content.php?222-Dec-Raffle-and-Pizza-party!
vlangel
Premium Member
Thanks, appreciate the info.
acer
New member
Yeah- thanks Stikovfunk for the info and the link. I did not communicate the meeting details very well.
Lets get a great turnout at the next "get together" and at the next Club meeting. After all if a bunch of us from the "Get togethers" start going to the club meetings we can change what has happened and make it better. If you don't go -- you cant really complain about it.
If anybody has an opinion on what time works best for the next "Get together" at my place on Nov 22nd , or if they need directions or address. Please PM me.
Lets get a great turnout at the next "get together" and at the next Club meeting. After all if a bunch of us from the "Get togethers" start going to the club meetings we can change what has happened and make it better. If you don't go -- you cant really complain about it.
If anybody has an opinion on what time works best for the next "Get together" at my place on Nov 22nd , or if they need directions or address. Please PM me.
stikovfunk
New member
I responded to a pm from you acer "The main reason for not letting you post for a meeting is insurance. If someone would get hurt we could be liable because it was advertised on our website. "
Acer responded " I am not so sure on the liability thing your suggesting, If true then any Facebook page, school organization page, etc. that talks about a party, etc could be held liable. I am not an attorney - are you? , or has an attorney told you that?
I never bothered to respond ...
Common sense tells you that you could be held responsible by association. Regardless of legal value that was my decision to take down your post. No one ever emailed or PMed me or any other board member to ask about it. If there was to be another get together out side of the PMASI meeting and you want to use the webpage or facebook page to advertise it on it would have to have board approval and a board member in attendance.
Like Beananimal put quite eloquently the I in PMASI stands for Incorporated.
We have responsibilities as a club.
With that being said I am not up for reelection as President. I see a lot of people here interested in the hobby. That is what Pmasi exists for. We need People to fill board positions that can put in some time and effort into making PMASI a great club once again. Also we need membership that is willing to help the board out when things need done. No one gets paid here... Not a Dime.. It requires everyones help if you truly want this club to survive and thrive.
I hope to see everyone at the Dec. meeting . In addition to the raffle and Pizza this is the meeting that members vote on next years board. Come out sign up and vote.
acer
New member
So much for me putting the whole thing in the past and "letting it go".
Stikovfunk - I have tried very hard to be "nice" about it. Especially, when I am spending my time and energy in the past few months trying to get people excited and re-interested in the hobby in our area- to which I don't see anybody in the club posting about anything either here on R/C or on the PMASI website or Facebook page. So, by my posting on the websites and facebook page that gets more people involved, doesn't that help the PMASI club? I purposely did not identify you as the person who I was dealing with so we could just put it behind us. I was also trying to diffuse the incident in order to help promote the club. But obviously - you want a confrontation of some sort. Maybe I should just not come to PMASI meetings as I have enough stress in my life without dealing with this. If you have an issue with me personally - then PM or email me and we can then work it out via a phone call - or NOT.
As I stated after Beans post I "get it" about not using the PMASI website and Facebook to promote another club or entity that competes with PMASI. However, I am NOT doing that and if you, Bean, or the PMASI club on a whole considers a few people getting together at someones home "competition" to the club then I can't help your paranoia. The whole liability thing is very questionable - the fact that PMASI is incorporated completely protects all individuals from any liability. And since the club is a non-profit corporate identity and holds no assets - there is no point in any lawsuit against it and no attorney would take on the action as there is no profit in it for them. AS far as anyone having liability because of a post on Facebook or on any website inviting people to anything is not a act that I or anybody else can be held liable for. If you have a legal example or case that shows someone being held liable for posting about a party, get together, or meeting or any kind, I invite you to reveal it.
The fact that you did not "bother to respond" to my PM asking if you were an attorney or if an attorney told you something regarding the liability of an individual posting on a website/Facebook pretty much tells it all. I was truly asking a serious question and felt I deserved an answer. If there really is a legal precedent or stature that I do not know about and either you as an attorney yourself or a different attorney can show that legality then " I apologize ". If there isn't - then my point is made. Either way, again, I really hope to put the whole thing behind us as I think we should more concerned with how to promote the club then worry about this.
Stikovfunk - I have tried very hard to be "nice" about it. Especially, when I am spending my time and energy in the past few months trying to get people excited and re-interested in the hobby in our area- to which I don't see anybody in the club posting about anything either here on R/C or on the PMASI website or Facebook page. So, by my posting on the websites and facebook page that gets more people involved, doesn't that help the PMASI club? I purposely did not identify you as the person who I was dealing with so we could just put it behind us. I was also trying to diffuse the incident in order to help promote the club. But obviously - you want a confrontation of some sort. Maybe I should just not come to PMASI meetings as I have enough stress in my life without dealing with this. If you have an issue with me personally - then PM or email me and we can then work it out via a phone call - or NOT.
As I stated after Beans post I "get it" about not using the PMASI website and Facebook to promote another club or entity that competes with PMASI. However, I am NOT doing that and if you, Bean, or the PMASI club on a whole considers a few people getting together at someones home "competition" to the club then I can't help your paranoia. The whole liability thing is very questionable - the fact that PMASI is incorporated completely protects all individuals from any liability. And since the club is a non-profit corporate identity and holds no assets - there is no point in any lawsuit against it and no attorney would take on the action as there is no profit in it for them. AS far as anyone having liability because of a post on Facebook or on any website inviting people to anything is not a act that I or anybody else can be held liable for. If you have a legal example or case that shows someone being held liable for posting about a party, get together, or meeting or any kind, I invite you to reveal it.
The fact that you did not "bother to respond" to my PM asking if you were an attorney or if an attorney told you something regarding the liability of an individual posting on a website/Facebook pretty much tells it all. I was truly asking a serious question and felt I deserved an answer. If there really is a legal precedent or stature that I do not know about and either you as an attorney yourself or a different attorney can show that legality then " I apologize ". If there isn't - then my point is made. Either way, again, I really hope to put the whole thing behind us as I think we should more concerned with how to promote the club then worry about this.
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loui
Member
I was hoping this stuff would stop I was really thinking of going to my first meeting in 10 years. This hobby for me is about enjoyment I get enough drama though out the day that I don't need it to continue into the evening. I really hope that this stuff ends it really does not make anything better.
MondoBongo
Obligate Feeder Obsessed
100% agree. I've been trying to ignore this thread but it keeps popping up on top of my tap a talk feed.
If you're sincere about letting this go, then please do so. Constantly beating this dead horse is a major turn off for me attending any functions, club or otherwise.
- Status
