Interesting Greener Is Not Better

[xJake]

Getting back to the original topic, I found a response from Gore's spokesperson about the issues.

I had the chance to read your blog today and wanted to take a chance to
clear the record:

1. The Gores undertook a three plus year renovation that concluded in
November 2007 with the issuance, in November 2007 of Gold LEED (Leadership
in Energy and Environmental Design) from the US Green Building Council.

2. As part of this renovation, the Gores have:
-Installed a geothermal system for heating, cooling and hot water
-Installed 33 solar panels
-Completely retrofitted their appliances, windows, ductwork, insulation, and
lighting.

3. Since the renovations were complete, the Gores have saved 40 percent on
their site energy use (which is a combination of electricity and natural gas
billsâ€"œthe two major sources of global warming gases).

4. The Gores also purchase their electricity, through their utility, from
the Green PowerSwitch programâ€"œwhich means that their electricity come from
solar, wind and methane gas.

So, in summary, the Gores have: made their home more energy efficient, the
produce electricity from renewable power (solar, geothermal) and they
purchase renewable power. No one is perfect, but they are doing their part.

Finally, the Gores are also donating a substantial amount of their personal
time to educate the public about the climate crisis as well as donating the
proceeds of their work to charity. They have donated the proceeds of the
Nobel Peace Prize, "An Inconvenient Truth" (the book and film), and Mrs.
Gore's photography to the Alliance for Climate Protection and The Climate
Project.

http://perezhilton.com/2008-06-19-al-gore-responds

It seems he may be using more energy, but the majority of it is coming from eco-friendly sources.


(No, I don't read Perez Hilton's blog.)

 

[buck50bmg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12804295#post12804295 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrissreef
You really believe that or are you just trying to stir things up?

Why is wind/solar/thermal/tidal all inferior to nuclear? Please explain why nuclear is "the" solution.

Nuclear is THE solution for right now and the near future. If higher enriched fuel was used (only about 4.5 to 5% Enriched right now) we could run a single core for 25 years + . So we would generate far less waste. Why dont we use higher enriched fuel? Well its all money...... Oh and the green weenies dictating law.....

I really get tired of all the "stick my head in the sand" people out there. If we took the bull by the b***s and did what was right for our country, we wouldnt be in this situation.

Do I care about the environment? Yes, but our way of life comes first. Like it or not.

The whole green thing is just another fad....that will fade away in time, kinda like spandex or mood rings.... and I give more merit to those than the green stuff.


So yes Im a greedy American, that is not ashamed to admit it.

 

[Rossini]

[Do I care about the environment? Yes, but our way of life comes first. Like it or not.

[/B]

That comment shows how you and the majority of others living in rich industralised countries are clueless about whats actually good for you and how distanced you have become from nature and the planet we have to live on.

It's our "way of life" that is destroying our lives on this planet.

It's not about vine yards in scotland and better sun bathing on brighton beach,its about mass extinctions and the vast majority of the planet being unhospitable for us as a species.

 

[buck50bmg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12871254#post12871254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini



That comment shows how you and the majority of others living in rich industralised countries are clueless about whats actually good for you and how distanced you have become from nature and the planet we have to live on.

It's our "way of life" that is destroying our lives on this planet.

It's not about vine yards in scotland and better sun bathing on brighton beach,its about mass extinctions and the vast majority of the planet being unhospitable for us as a species.

So far its not destroying my life.....or anyone I know. I know the rich are bad......I feel so bad for doing something with my life and being successful! Woe is me. I guess the huge amount I pay for taxes for the government programs that encourage the complete moron baby makers we have in this country aren't enough....I need to give more....

Im tired of this guilt trip people are trying to push on everyone. Well Im not going to take it, Im sick of it. We are the super power we are because we did what is right and didn't ask specialist groups if we could do it.

Darn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!!!!

Oh yea, I thank God that I live in a country where I can bear arms to protect my way of life from the government.

 

[Rossini]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12871270#post12871270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by buck50bmg
So far its not destroying my life.....or anyone I know. I know the rich are bad......I feel so bad for doing something with my life and being successful! Woe is me. I guess the huge amount I pay for taxes for the government programs that encourage the complete moron baby makers we have in this country aren't enough....I need to give more....

Im tired of this guilt trip people are trying to push on everyone. Well Im not going to take it, Im sick of it. We are the super power we are because we did what is right and didn't ask specialist groups if we could do it.

Darn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!!!!

Oh yea, I thank God that I live in a country where I can bear arms to protect my way of life from the government.

Of course its not,because like me you are lucky and live in a place where the effects of catastrophic climate change are not happening yet,and we will get the least effects compared to some countrys. Although you will get more droughts and hurricanes.

No one is saying you cant do well and earn good money. And its not about putting people on a guilt trip,is about people becoming aware of the things that matter. Its time to wake up and realise that the ecology of this planet we have to live on is more important than having an excessive life style based on burning lots of fossil fuels.

The value of nature has been put into monetary terms and the figure is massivley higher than all the rich nations GDP put together.

All this crap about "we are the super power we are" and "torpedoes" and "bearing arms" makes you look stupid and very arragant. With that attitude its no wonder people around the world think that alot of you guys are stupid and arragant.


:bum:

 

[Rossini]

.

 

[buck50bmg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12871343#post12871343 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini
Of course its not,because like me you are lucky and live in a place where the effects of catastrophic climate change are not happening yet,and we will get the least effects compared to some countrys. Although you will get more droughts and hurricanes.

No one is saying you cant do well and earn good money. And its not about putting people on a guilt trip,is about people becoming aware of the things that matter. Its time to wake up and realise that the ecology of this planet we have to live on is more important than having an excessive life style based on burning lots of fossil fuels.

The value of nature has been put into monetary terms and the figure is massivley higher than all the rich nations GDP put together.

All this crap about "we are the super power we are" and "torpedoes" and "bearing arms" makes you look stupid and very arragant. With that attitude its no wonder people around the world think that alot of you guys are stupid and arragant.


:bum:

Not stupid ( I use the spell checker), but I am arrogant!:rollface:

 

[scottras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12869208#post12869208 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by buck50bmg
Nuclear is THE solution for right now and the near future. If higher enriched fuel was used (only about 4.5 to 5% Enriched right now) we could run a single core for 25 years + . So we would generate far less waste. Why dont we use higher enriched fuel? Well its all money...... Oh and the green weenies dictating law.....

I really get tired of all the "stick my head in the sand" people out there. If we took the bull by the b***s and did what was right for our country, we wouldnt be in this situation.

Do I care about the environment? Yes, but our way of life comes first. Like it or not.

The whole green thing is just another fad....that will fade away in time, kinda like spandex or mood rings.... and I give more merit to those than the green stuff.


So yes Im a greedy American, that is not ashamed to admit it.

But you have not answered the question, why is nuclear better than solar / wind. It just seems to me that the open market that the US is said to have has gone beyond nuclear. Why is it that so many companies are investing in solar / wind yet some people get stuck on this "nuclear is the answer" stuff. Nuclear makes no economic or or ecological sense these days, so why bother going to all that effort.

When will people realise that your way of life depends on the environment. It is not a choice you have to make. The economy and the ecology are linked. You could even say that if the USA started thinking more about the ecology it could SAVE it's economy.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12875496#post12875496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottras
When will people realise that your way of life depends on the environment. It is not a choice you have to make. The economy and the ecology are linked.

Unfortunately too many people don't realize that

 

[buck50bmg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12875496#post12875496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottras
But you have not answered the question, why is nuclear better than solar / wind. It just seems to me that the open market that the US is said to have has gone beyond nuclear. Why is it that so many companies are investing in solar / wind yet some people get stuck on this "nuclear is the answer" stuff. Nuclear makes no economic or or ecological sense these days, so why bother going to all that effort.

When will people realise that your way of life depends on the environment. It is not a choice you have to make. The economy and the ecology are linked. You could even say that if the USA started thinking more about the ecology it could SAVE it's economy.

If I really have to explain that to ya, you really dont have a clue.....


Wind, Solar are very inefficient....during the daylight hours and in a location that supports them. Let alone at night when both are useless. Nuclear is far more efficient than anything we have out there. A core lasts 4.5 years at full power ( like 1250 MWe per unit) What does a windmill do? 5MWe during 50mph winds???? And solar is a complete joke and waste of money, used as solar cells.

Power companies are not going to waste money.....PERIOD. And I know all you greenies will try to complain so they have to invest in these technologies....and you will probably get your way.....

 

[chrissreef]

Buck50bmg -
- is nuclear better for the environment? (mining uranium, waste, accidents... which always seem to occur with everything at some point, ever notice that?)
- is nuclear safer if an "accident" occurs? (meltdown, flood, tornado, hurricane, earthquake etc. etc.)
- are you willing to transport the spent radioactive chambers yourself?
- are you ok with them being transported through your neighborhood?
- what about living within 50 miles of either the plant or chamber storage facility? heck, make it 100 miles.
- would you rather the US be dotted with 100 nuclear power plants or 150 wind/solar fields?
- where will the funding come from to store the chambers?
- which is cheaper to set up?
- which is cheaper to operate/maintain?
- are you willing to work where the spent chambers are kept?
- are you ok with your children living in the world with hundreds of thousands spent chambers? (and continueing to grow in number)... or just maintaining the same wind/solar fields already set up?
- Who pays for the uranium? (much more $$ than wind/solar maintenance... it's also a finite resource... unlike wind/water/solar)
- would you rather your mother, sister, best friends or anyone else you care about live within 50 miles of a wind/solar field or a nuclear reactor so that you can have electricity?

- yes, solar is useless at night, no wind isn't useless at night. Is that really a "good" base to argue from? it's not like it will be night or windless 24/7 365

you really believe this country is so "great" and we should be able to do anything at the expense of others/environment - but are you taking into consideration how we've supported sweat shops, slavery, fertilizer that makes nearly half of the caribbean uninhabitable during the summer months, bombed civilians, used nerve gas and nuclear bombs on civilians etc. etc. - all so you can have a nice day? we aren't as "great" as we'd like to think in my opinion.

 

[scottras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12881156#post12881156 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by buck50bmg
If I really have to explain that to ya, you really dont have a clue.....


Wind, Solar are very inefficient....during the daylight hours and in a location that supports them. Let alone at night when both are useless. Nuclear is far more efficient than anything we have out there. A core lasts 4.5 years at full power ( like 1250 MWe per unit) What does a windmill do? 5MWe during 50mph winds???? And solar is a complete joke and waste of money, used as solar cells.

Power companies are not going to waste money.....PERIOD. And I know all you greenies will try to complain so they have to invest in these technologies....and you will probably get your way.....

Please have a look at thermal solar. It can provide power through the night and is as cheap as nuclear right now. In 5 years time it will be cheaper than coal. Last time I checked you do not have to purchase sunlight on the open market, nor do you have to transport its waste. Like it or not thermal solar, wind and solar pv power is attracting much more investment than nuclear. Switching to nuclear is a bad idea for the environment and for your economy. Odds are I have a clue.

 

[CassiusClay]

quick question here....were the readings that are higher taken from the time period that the home was being redone? If so the report is a load of skimate since re-doing an entire home will defiantly have an impact on energy consumption. just a thought.

 

[RichardS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12871254#post12871254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini



That comment shows how you and the majority of others living in rich industralised countries are clueless about whats actually good for you and how distanced you have become from nature and the planet we have to live on.

Thankfully we have plenty of people like you to tell us what is good for us.

 

[chrissreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12887348#post12887348 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichardS
Thankfully we have plenty of people like you to tell us what is good for us.

1. From his statement, it appears he isn't "telling" you what to do, just bringing awareness or attempting to enlighten you to look into something.
2. I believe unbiased/influenced SME's such as doctors, scientists and those relatively informed with data should provide suggestion - or even all out rules on certain subjects that we "must" follow. Why? because last I checked, a Dr. knew a lot more about fixing a wound/illness and those with experience and leading this hobby's advancements have much better success than those first starting out and doing whatever they want or "think" is a good idea.

 

[billsreef]

[flamealert]

 

[RichardS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12887621#post12887621 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
<i><br> Personal attacks of any kind will not be tolerated. </i>

I'm not sure if calling the majority of people living in "rich industrialised countries" clueless would count as a personal attack since it is quite a few people.

Maybe if he actually named the rich industrialised countries he was referring to then people would know if they were being personally attacked or not.

 

[RichardS]

In the spirit of further constructive dialog...

In light of the comments that so many people don't know what's good for them and that SME's from various fields should make rules that the rest of us "must" follow. What do you think of Czech President Vaclav Klaus postion that environmentalism is the new form of communism?
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/ss_politics0228_06_10.asp

 

[chrissreef]

i disagree... the government should be in place to provide guidelines, not "total government control" The article also speaks about Nazi's... i don't think the green movement is oppressing anyone.

I believe some Asian cultures plan 50-100 yrs down the road (Japan in the past?). The American culture has generally been pretty shortsighted and "wasteful" that I think the whole green movement is just to hard for some to grasp and people respond defensively and say its infringing on their freedom. To an "extent" they're right - but many aren't really looking beyond themselves. The article throws a lot of facts out the window to argue its point which isn't really fair. (whole counties going under water if nothing s done, food shortages from land to sea, cleanup left to future generations etc.)

I believe if we look 50-100+ yrs from now, we need to make baby steps to 100% clean/renewable energy - it's not going to happen overnight like some greenies are pushing for (see above for reasons why and the pushback by some). I really don't see another option right now for my children's children right now. I see the movement as being responsible and good parenting. Last I checked, it wasn't good to do whatever by binge drinking or serving kids Twinkies 24/7 in the name of "freedom".

edit - i also think it's funny and boggling how some point the finger and say "if they won't be environmentally clean, then I won't either" - like it's a free get out of jail card. I argue... who cares what someone else is doing with their kids, in their house and for their environment - fix your house, your kids and clean up or at least do some spring cleaning - because it's probably needed and the right thing to do. You'll also never make anyone else do anything until one leads by good example - it also provides data.

 

[buck50bmg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12881323#post12881323 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrissreef
Buck50bmg -
- is nuclear better for the environment? (mining uranium, waste, accidents... which always seem to occur with everything at some point, ever notice that?) Not an issue, hasnt happened in decades.
- is nuclear safer if an "accident" occurs? (meltdown, flood, tornado, hurricane, earthquake etc. etc.) The containment building the reactor is in makes a meltdown next to imposable from escaping the building. The others floods, etc.... have already been thought of. There is no way any flood (watertight doors), tornado (4 foot thick walls at a minimum) or earthquake (you have to see the structure to know there is no chance)
- are you willing to transport the spent radioactive chambers yourself? Yes I am, And I have been next to them.
- are you ok with them being transported through your neighborhood? Again, Yes I am
- what about living within 50 miles of either the plant or chamber storage facility? heck, make it 100 miles. I have lived within 20 miles of hotter nuclear material, and 8 years only 50ft from a at power reactor.....
- would you rather the US be dotted with 100 nuclear power plants or 150 wind/solar fields? I like to see over 500 nuclear power plants.
- where will the funding come from to store the chambers? The power plants.....they do it now....
- which is cheaper to set up? Wind and solar, but nuclear has the biggest ROI
- which is cheaper to operate/maintain? Nuclear by far
- are you willing to work where the spent chambers are kept? I have and I do.
- are you ok with your children living in the world with hundreds of thousands spent chambers? Yes I am. (and continueing to grow in number)... or just maintaining the same wind/solar fields already set up?
- Who pays for the uranium? (much more $$ than wind/solar maintenance... it's also a finite resource... unlike wind/water/solar) Wow, the power plants do.....
- would you rather your mother, sister, best friends or anyone else you care about live within 50 miles of a wind/solar field or a nuclear reactor so that you can have electricity? Nuclear reactor

- yes, solar is useless at night, no wind isn't useless at night. Is that really a "good" base to argue from? it's not like it will be night or windless 24/7 365

YES IT IS.....

PLEASE REMOVE YOUR HEAD FROM THE SAND.

you really believe this country is so "great" and we should be able to do anything at the expense of others/environment - but are you taking into consideration how we've supported sweat shops, slavery, fertilizer that makes nearly half of the caribbean uninhabitable during the summer months, bombed civilians, used nerve gas and nuclear bombs on civilians etc. etc. - all so you can have a nice day? we aren't as "great" as we'd like to think in my opinion.

:eek1: