Internal vs. External Pumps for 180 gallon reef

[Tarazed]

Oscar et al,

I really like the idea of two return pumps. I had my return pump (mag 9.5) fail recently on my 120 (approximately 24 hrs) and had no losses. BUT, because my heaters are in my sump the tank dropped several degrees. Dual pumps would have prevented that problem. My next tank :spin3: will again have "stock" overflows (AGA or Perfecto). Do you think they could handle 2 Eheim 1260s at ~4 feet of head, or would I be better off with smaller 1200s? I was also thinking of using one of the return pumps to "push" my phosban reactors. I hope my questions are appropriate for this thread.

Thanks,

Gordon

 

[Tarazed]

Oscar et al,

I really like the idea of two return pumps. I had my return pump (mag 9.5) fail recently on my 120 (approximately 24 hrs) and had no losses. BUT, because my heaters are in my sump the tank dropped several degrees. Dual pumps would have prevented that problem. My next tank :spin3: will again have "stock" overflows (AGA or Perfecto). Do you think they could handle 2 Eheim 1262s at ~4 feet of head, or would I be better off with smaller 1260s or 1250s? I was also thinking of using one of the return pumps to "push" my phosban reactors. I hope my questions are appropriate for this thread.

Thanks,

Gordon

 

[aqualove]

Why?

Hey mark,
That's what i've been told actually what's your opinion on the subject? 5x the volume of the DT?

 

[itachi]

I'm running an ATB4200 on my system , and it's total overkill ... Honestly best bang for you buck might be the laguna's ... they are the same motor block as the ATBs, RDs, and askolls .. low watt draw .. high GPH .
my ATB 4200 draws less than 1.4 amps

 

[Mark]

The two pump idea is nice for redundancy, but Eheims are pretty bomb proof. When I ran my tank with the single Eheim, I had a second backup Eheim in the closet. I even had the backup all setup with the same threaded unions, so that it would be a quick swap. Needless to say, I never had to use it. As far as return pump failure worries, I always have one of my Tunze streams on a UPS. This not only covers me in case of a return pump failure, but during power outages as well. The wattage is so low on the stream pump, that it can run for hours on a UPS.

As far as turnover,
Right now with the basement sump, I'm running 600gph through the sump. That is for a 180 gallon display and a 90 gallon sump. It sounds like a small amount, but perfect with 2-4 Tunze Streams in the tank.

@ the other Mark(mpoletti), I don't think the hobby has passed us by at all. Mega return pumps and bulky closed loops are old school, IMHO. I like using propeller pumps that I can move around and set on pulse and wave settings. No disrespect to people with closed loops! I think they have their perks, like being easier to hide in the display.

 

[oscar.millan]

The two pump idea is nice for redundancy, but Eheims are pretty bomb proof. When I ran my tank with the single Eheim, I had a second backup Eheim in the closet. I even had the backup all setup with the same threaded unions, so that it would be a quick swap. Needless to say, I never had to use it. As far as return pump failure worries, I always have one of my Tunze streams on a UPS. This not only covers me in case of a return pump failure, but during power outages as well. The wattage is so low on the stream pump, that it can run for hours on a UPS.

As far as turnover,
Right now with the basement sump, I'm running 600gph through the sump. That is for a 180 gallon display and a 90 gallon sump. It sounds like a small amount, but perfect with 2-4 Tunze Streams in the tank.

@ the other Mark(mpoletti), I don't think the hobby has passed us by at all. Mega return pumps and bulky closed loops are old school, IMHO. I like using propeller pumps that I can move around and set on pulse and wave settings. No disrespect to people with closed loops! I think they have their perks, like being easier to hide in the display.

Mark,

Thanks for your insight. I agree completely with the Eheim reliability. I have ran an Eheim on my 65 gallon reef for years without any issues. One of many reasons why it was a clear contender now with my 180g.

I typically plug-in my return pump to the UPS unit, but it's interesting to hear a Tunze to a UPS. The reason for doing this was to keep the additional water volume in the sump circulating. It seemed to me, like the healthiest thing to do in a power outage. That being said, it does not protect me against return pump failure, but I guess at that point, I could simply plug in the Tunze stream into the ups if the return pump happened to fail.

I personally have always misunderstood closed loops, it was not until recently that I better understood their purpose and place in our wonderful hobby.

By the way I will be posting a summary of lessons learned, pros/cons, and final decision on my tank very soon.

Happy reefing!

 

[Swoop]

I think people are going way overkill with their return pumps. When I had a sump inside the stand, I ran my 180g with just one eheim 1262. That tank ran in this configuration for 5 years. Now that I have the sump in my basement with 17ft head pressure, I'm running a PanWorld 150PS that is throttled back to 60 percent.

If you are talking about electrical efficiency, then don't use your sump return pump as your primary means of flow. For filtration purposes, you only need 2-3 times turnover in your sump. You're better off creating flow in the tank with some low wattage Tunze streams, Vortechs, or Koralias.

The added benefit with less turnover in the sump, is a more quiet tank. You spouse will thank you.

+1

To the OP, I love my ATB 1500 on my 300 gallon tank. It matches my overflow gph rate perfectly. Its quiet too. It was 200 bucks or so if I remember correctly, in this hobby I would say thats not expensive at all compared to what some people will recommend.

 

[oscar.millan]

The final verdict to bring closure to this thread.

I decided to go with the following:

2 x Eheim 1262

Reasons:

1. No drilling required for internal pumps.
2. Ease of setup and easy plumbing.
3. Redundant setup with two internals.

Other notes:
Although, there are plenty of ways to do the same thing and accomplish similar goals, when I first started there were a few things I had not considered. For example, I began this journey thinking that the max flow through the sump would be ideal. However, thanks to the overwhelming response of this thread and more experienced reefers, it became clear that turn over in a sump can be much lower than I previously considered. This notion discarded the Reeflo pumps because max flow was not ideal. Reeflo pumps excelled in efficiency and bang for the buck per GPH, but in most cases created too much flow for a sump.

When you add the fact that the use of an external pump would require drilling, it made the most sense to go with internal. Also, heat issues with internal pumps would be minimal since I plan to do T5's and fans for cooling.

The last push came from my lack of experience and really lack of any major benefit from going external. About the only thing that did come up was that externals appear to be better at keeping heat out of the water column.

Lastly, if I were to purchase an external pump in the future, I could not go wrong with the Reeflo or the Panworld. If I wanted maximum flow, Reeflo is your pump. Excellent max-head and reliability Panworld is the one to beat. If I ever consider a closed loop system, these would be my considerations.

I hope this helps others. Thanks everyone for your insight and comments.

Happy Reefing!

 

[LifeAquatic]

I use 2 Rio 3100 pumps on my 180 gal. One for each return. A lot cheaper then external pumps. I see concerns with heat, but they dont give off any noticble heat. I use two pumps in case one goes out. Plus internal pumps will save space. I have been using these pumps for over a year with no issues.

 

[oscar.millan]

LifeAquatic,

Thanks for your reply, we are doing the same thing using different brand pumps. And I'm with 100% on the space.

I use 2 Rio 3100 pumps on my 180 gal. One for each return. A lot cheaper then external pumps. I see concerns with heat, but they dont give off any noticble heat. I use two pumps in case one goes out. Plus internal pumps will save space. I have been using these pumps for over a year with no issues.

 

[LifeAquatic]

I dont have photo bucket, but Id be more then happy to email pics of my sump/fuge/return pump set up if you care to see it. = )

 

[oscar.millan]

Sure email me at oscar.millan@gmail.com.

Thanks!

I dont have photo bucket, but Id be more then happy to email pics of my sump/fuge/return pump set up if you care to see it. = )