Internal vs. External Pumps for 180 gallon reef

You're getting a big boy tank - I recommend you use a big boy pump. I used the Blueline 40HD-X as the return external pump on my 180G. It worked flawlessly and still works on my water management system. Very cool and very quiet. I also used an external (recirculating) skimmer on my 180G - I used my sump as a refugium with chaeto in the center chamber. JME.

Good luck on your nice upgrade...

LL
 
Lightsluvr said:
You're getting a big boy tank - I recommend you use a big boy pump. I used the Blueline 40HD-X as the return external pump on my 180G. It worked flawlessly and still works on my water management system. Very cool and very quiet. I also used an external (recirculating) skimmer on my 180G - I used my sump as a refugium with chaeto in the center chamber. JME.

Good luck on your nice upgrade...

LL
Click to expand...

Lightsluvr,

Thanks for your blessing, I'm very excited about this tank I feel like it's opened up so many possibilities of both fish and corals. I'm very much looking forward to it.

Just so you know you've opened up a can of worms :lmao: what's the difference between Blueline and Panworld? They both seem to be made my an ex-chief engineer from Iwaki? Sounds like they make quality pumps, but they weren't even on my radar. Are they one in the same? Sounds like the same company.
 
I've been running both the PanWorld PS150 (return from remote sump) and the Reeflow Dart (closed loop) on my system for 4 years.

The first dart failed after about 2 yrs - seals and bearing went out; reeflow sent me a refurb at no charge. The refurb is now starting to leak at the seals. It's an OK pump. Runs fairly quiet, but hot.

The panworld is rock solid; it has terrific output with some substantial head, and is holding up great. It's super easy to maintain. No seals to go bad. Runs very cool. Mine uses about 160w on average (at my KWH costs, it costs me about $7 per month to run it).

I've been considering what I will replace the Dart with. Anything else that is close in terms of flow rate and sound is the ATB Flowstar 3200. It uses only 115w, but it costs nearly $600! I won't even quote the red dragon RD 12... it's just insanely expensive.
 
Have the same issue here OSCAR.MILLAN. I'm buiding a 400g tank(350g if you consider the water level) but it's in an apartment so i have to stuff everything under the stand which leaves me not too much of a room for my equipment. I'll probably go for internal if i find quality ones or if i can't i'll have to go for an external one and drill my sub. I just want the best flow possible. I'm puzzled as well though. I've heard so many opinions i just don't know what's better. I'll be keeping both soft corals and hard corals so it's very important
 
Last edited:
thanks for the info Oscar.millan. if i ever have to replace the dolphin of Reeflo i was wondering about replacing with two pumps instead of just one, that way i would have a back up but it looks like the numbers don't support doing that?
i alos have Mag pumps. wonderful quality and very reliable (not to mention east to clean)but as i mentioned above that add heat if used internal.

thanks again
 
FWIW, I had a reeflo snapper on my 180. I switched over to an ATB 1500 flowmaster and I could not be happier. I will never run an external return pump again.
 
mpoletti said:
FWIW, I had a reeflo snapper on my 180. I switched over to an ATB 1500 flowmaster and I could not be happier. I will never run an external return pump again.
Click to expand...

Does the ATB produce any internal pumps for larger tanks though? What's their web?
 
I think people are going way overkill with their return pumps. When I had a sump inside the stand, I ran my 180g with just one eheim 1262. That tank ran in this configuration for 5 years. Now that I have the sump in my basement with 17ft head pressure, I'm running a PanWorld 150PS that is throttled back to 60 percent.

If you are talking about electrical efficiency, then don't use your sump return pump as your primary means of flow. For filtration purposes, you only need 2-3 times turnover in your sump. You're better off creating flow in the tank with some low wattage Tunze streams, Vortechs, or Koralias.

The added benefit with less turnover in the sump, is a more quiet tank. You spouse will thank you.
 
prop-frags said:
I've been running both the PanWorld PS150 (return from remote sump) and the Reeflow Dart (closed loop) on my system for 4 years.

The first dart failed after about 2 yrs - seals and bearing went out; reeflow sent me a refurb at no charge. The refurb is now starting to leak at the seals. It's an OK pump. Runs fairly quiet, but hot.

The panworld is rock solid; it has terrific output with some substantial head, and is holding up great. It's super easy to maintain. No seals to go bad. Runs very cool. Mine uses about 160w on average (at my KWH costs, it costs me about $7 per month to run it).

I've been considering what I will replace the Dart with. Anything else that is close in terms of flow rate and sound is the ATB Flowstar 3200. It uses only 115w, but it costs nearly $600! I won't even quote the red dragon RD 12... it's just insanely expensive.
Click to expand...

prop-frags,

Thanks for your insight, sounds like a solid yes for Panworld, and perhaps a maybe for Reeflo. First Panworld real world experience on this thread and good review at that, glad to hear it's a solid pump.

A little disappointed on the Reeflo, I guess I expected them to be as solid as Panworld.

ATB sounds like another great option incredibly efficient pump, but you do pay a little more. Red Dragon is completely out of my price range. The nice thing about RD pumps is that they come with bragging rights and serves as a symbol of your socio-economic status. :)

Thanks again for your insight.
 
aqualove said:
Have the same issue here OSCAR.MILLAN. I'm buiding a 400g tank(350g if you consider the water level) but it's in an apartment so i have to stuff everything under the stand which leaves me not too much of a room for my equipment. I'll probably go for internal if i find quality ones or if i can't i'll have to go for an external one and drill my sub. I just want the best flow possible. I'm puzzled as well though. I've heard so many opinions i just don't know what's better. I'll be keeping both soft corals and hard corals so it's very important
Click to expand...

I will be summarizing this thread today or tomorrow with the pros and cons of each. Stay tuned and I will have something before too long.

Some people do a mix of both - internal for return in the sump and external for closed loop for added circulation.

It just depends on what you want to accomplish, more than one way to be successful.

Thanks for your comments.
 
sarmo said:
thanks for the info Oscar.millan. if i ever have to replace the dolphin of Reeflo i was wondering about replacing with two pumps instead of just one, that way i would have a back up but it looks like the numbers don't support doing that?
i alos have Mag pumps. wonderful quality and very reliable (not to mention east to clean)but as i mentioned above that add heat if used internal.

thanks again
Click to expand...

Replacing a single pump with two pumps gives you redundancy which eliminates a single point of failure, this was mentioned by another reefer in an earlier post. However, depending on the pump, GPH, and watts a single larger pump can be more efficient. Again, the efficiency king appears to be Reeflo based on my comparison, but we would have get into specifics to make a better evaluation of the individual options.

You're very welcome. I would be happy to email you a copy of the excel sheet. PM with your email and I'll send it your way. You should be able to plug in the numbers for any pump and get some valuable insight.

Thanks for posting.
 
mpoletti said:
FWIW, I had a reeflo snapper on my 180. I switched over to an ATB 1500 flowmaster and I could not be happier. I will never run an external return pump again.
Click to expand...

mpoletti,

I'm looking at ATB pumps with great interest. A bit more expensive than what I had hoped for, but I guess we all know this is an expensive hobby.

Is this pump worth the money? From your post is sounds like it's a resounding yes!

Thanks for posting.
 
Mark said:
I think people are going way overkill with their return pumps. When I had a sump inside the stand, I ran my 180g with just one eheim 1262. That tank ran in this configuration for 5 years. Now that I have the sump in my basement with 17ft head pressure, I'm running a PanWorld 150PS that is throttled back to 60 percent.

If you are talking about electrical efficiency, then don't use your sump return pump as your primary means of flow. For filtration purposes, you only need 2-3 times turnover in your sump. You're better off creating flow in the tank with some low wattage Tunze streams, Vortechs, or Koralias.

The added benefit with less turnover in the sump, is a more quiet tank. You spouse will thank you.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup: I even have my ATB 1500 throttled back, but I guess I better get a new return pump as my tank is not working out :lol:

Mark, I guess the hobby has passed us by :celeb1:
 
oscar.millan said:
mpoletti,

I'm looking at ATB pumps with great interest. A bit more expensive than what I had hoped for, but I guess we all know this is an expensive hobby.

Is this pump worth the money? From your post is sounds like it's a resounding yes!

Thanks for posting.
Click to expand...

I'd say say so. A quiet and efficient return pump is the guts to a healthy system. Why spend all this money on live stock and skimp out on something that will last you longer than most fish; Just my $.02
 
Mark said:
I think people are going way overkill with their return pumps. When I had a sump inside the stand, I ran my 180g with just one eheim 1262. That tank ran in this configuration for 5 years. Now that I have the sump in my basement with 17ft head pressure, I'm running a PanWorld 150PS that is throttled back to 60 percent.

If you are talking about electrical efficiency, then don't use your sump return pump as your primary means of flow. For filtration purposes, you only need 2-3 times turnover in your sump. You're better off creating flow in the tank with some low wattage Tunze streams, Vortechs, or Koralias.

The added benefit with less turnover in the sump, is a more quiet tank. You spouse will thank you.
Click to expand...

This is something I have learned as the thread has developed, but I also considered that in a dual pump setup (Eheim 1262 x2) a single pump would keep the tank healthy in the event of a failure for an extended period of time. In your case for 5 years! :)

I would agree with you Mark that too much turnover in your sump is probably overkill. For all intents and purposes I would not exceed 10x turn over through a sump. And the only reason I'm saying that is because two Eheim pumps at 900GPH is 1,800GPH. 180 gallon tank x 10 = 1,800. Not bad. What do you think Mark? Am I still pushing it?
 
Thats all up to you. I am closer to 5x through my sump. My flow is created by tunzes and vortechs. Thats the great think about this hobby, we have so many choices :)
 
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