Invert Ich Prevention Quarantine?

[marc111]

So for corals I have been quarantining for 74 days to prevent ICH intorduction into my main tank.

For fish I use the tank transfer method.

Here are my questions:
1) for shrimp or crabs what should be done? Will cysts adhere to their carapaces?
2) for starfish same question?

3) For something soft bodied like a cucumber or sea hare or lettuce slug would the tank transfer method work?

Thoughts?

Mark

 

[snorvich]

Tank transfer works for any animal that acts as a host to the parasite as part of its life cycle. So this means fish. QT of inverts/corals is still desirable but tank transfer is not required.

 

[marc111]

Thanks Steve.

I was afraid the inverts would also need the 74 day quarantine period and was just hoping there might be a shorter out for them.

Mark

 

[snorvich]

Thanks Steve.

I was afraid the inverts would also need the 74 day quarantine period and was just hoping there might be a shorter out for them.

Mark

Any inverts purchased from a system also containing fish should be quarantined. For absolute safety, 72 days is desirable.

 

[Spar]

Any inverts purchased from a system also containing fish should be quarantined. For absolute safety, 72 days is desirable.

+1

Anything wet! I put coral, hermits, snails, macro algae, live rock, shrimp, cucumbers, etc, all through a 72 day fallow treatment.

 

[zeebies]

+2

Only way to be sure.

 

[Deinonych]

+3

All inverts get 72 days in QT for me, no exceptions.

 

[Dbondaruk]

So you have a special tank that's stabil for coral QT. Dosing alk cal and proper lighting

 

[andy01748]

Any inverts purchased from a system also containing fish should be quarantined. For absolute safety, 72 days is desirable.

I need to have my observation tank lie fallow for 72 days before reintroducing any fish that have gone through TTM to make it ich free. I have two fish there now who have never shown signs of ich, but I know it still may be present, so I plan to put them through TTM and keep them in a separate tank.

My understanding is the 72 days is because there may be ich cysts that won't complete hatching until that timeframe is complete. The tank currently has inverts and macro algae. Am I risking infecting my DT if I transfer any of these to the DT before 72 days post fish removal are up? What about only parts of macro algae that grow after the fish are removed? Also, shrimp or crabs after they molt post fish removal (assuming any cysts would be on the molt)? I assume snails need the 72 days because cysts may be on their shell, which won't shed any potential cysts.

Also, I assume the 72 days would have to be reset if you add any non-fish livestock or macro algae after starting the fallow period? Not sure how one guarantees that something had not been in a system containing fish in the last 72 days even if the LFS keeps them separate.

 

[snorvich]

I need to have my observation tank lie fallow for 72 days before reintroducing any fish that have gone through TTM to make it ich free. I have two fish there now who have never shown signs of ich, but I know it still may be present, so I plan to put them through TTM and keep them in a separate tank.

Exactly.

My understanding is the 72 days is because there may be ich cysts that won't complete hatching until that timeframe is complete.

Correct.

The tank currently has inverts and macro algae. Am I risking infecting my DT if I transfer any of these to the DT before 72 days post fish removal are up? What about only parts of macro algae that grow after the fish are removed? Also, shrimp or crabs after they molt post fish removal (assuming any cysts would be on the molt)? I assume snails need the 72 days because cysts may be on their shell, which won't shed any potential cysts.

Also, I assume the 72 days would have to be reset if you add any non-fish livestock or macro algae after starting the fallow period? Not sure how one guarantees that something had not been in a system containing fish in the last 72 days even if the LFS keeps them separate.

That is why, for guaranteed protection, many QT anything wet for 72 days as the 100% solution.

 

[Deinonych]

So you have a special tank that's stabil for coral QT. Dosing alk cal and proper lighting

Yes - 20gal with LR and sand, plus T5 lighting and an ATO. I dose B-ionic 2-part manually (just like my DT). Will probably add a small skimmer at some point, but the current setup works fine for a 72-day stay.

 

[marc111]

Yep, That is what I am doing with all inverts, 74 day quarantine in a tank that never sees any fish. I have a second 2 tank quarantine system for fish that facilitates the tank transfer method and allows all equipment to be rinsed in fresh water and then thoroughly dry out between transfers.

I appreciate the confirmation everyone.

Happy New Year,
Mark

 

[andrewkw]

I know this is likely an ignorant question but is there no way to speed this up for inverts and corals?

I would like to QT everything properly, but to keep inverts for 72 days out of my DT I will need like 10 QT tanks. Currently I try and keep most corals out of my DT for a couple of weeks and in my frag tank but this is primarily to ensure they don't die in the DT. I dip first with coral RX then place in frag tank.

Why won't tank transfer work for corals and other inverts like snails? Will cysts remain dormant on snails / corals where as on fish they will have to hatch every 3 days? Again another stupid question but what about blasting them with high powered powerhead during the tank transfers trying to get everything off them, perhaps inspecting them under a microscope after. For snails they can be completely dried out, for zoas and palys they can be fresh water dipped. I know this won't kill ich under a fish's skin but would any cysts on such corals be on their exterior?

 

[Spar]

I know this is likely an ignorant question but is there no way to speed this up for inverts and corals?

I would like to QT everything properly, but to keep inverts for 72 days out of my DT I will need like 10 QT tanks. Currently I try and keep most corals out of my DT for a couple of weeks and in my frag tank but this is primarily to ensure they don't die in the DT. I dip first with coral RX then place in frag tank.

Why won't tank transfer work for corals and other inverts like snails? Will cysts remain dormant on snails / corals where as on fish they will have to hatch every 3 days? Again another stupid question but what about blasting them with high powered powerhead during the tank transfers trying to get everything off them, perhaps inspecting them under a microscope after. For snails they can be completely dried out, for zoas and palys they can be fresh water dipped. I know this won't kill ich under a fish's skin but would any cysts on such corals be on their exterior?

'cysts' are the Tomont life cycle stage where the parasite has hardened to a surface somewhere in the tank and starts to split into daughter parasites. this is the stage where they could have hardened on the shell/surface of an invert or coral. and this is the most unpredictable stage timing-wise; which could take as short as 3 days to 'hatch' (release new parasites) up to 72 days.

On fish, you are dealing with the Trophont life cycle stage where the parasite is feeding on the fish. This stage is very predictable with the parasite completing its feeding in 3 to 7 days, then jumping off the fish to form a cyst somewhere.

TTM works by never allowing time for the new cysts to hatch, thus preventing new infection from ever occurring on the fish.

There has been no known remedy for killing the cysts (other than drying them out, which would kill inverts/coral in the process), thus why there is no way to prevent inverts/coral from carrying in new parasites during that stage to your DT. Even copper and hypo don't target that stage, waiting for the free swimming stages of Theront or Protomont.

Cysts are microscopic and sealed pretty tight to the surface, of which prevents simple 'hosing down' of the inverts/coral. Likely will get a few but no chance of 100%, especially when they are in nooks and crannies difficult to get to. Even one missed is enough to infect every fish in your tank.

 

[shaginwagon13]

Not to revive an old thread, but I am assuming the 72-days still applies to corals and inverts?

I just finished 3 months of hypo in my main display tank and now would like to add inverts and corals but I am sort of dragging my feed with getting my frag tank up and running.... so from my reading, QT of inverts and corals is legitimately like having a second tank up and running for the entire 72 day duration? Can someone please comment if this is correct?

Also:
1) What do you feed your inverts while in QT (talking about snails mainly)

Is there no risk of ICH from adding copepods directly in your tank? Technically they are 'wet' and could have something in the water they are transported in correct?

 

[Louis Z]

Hopefully you qt everything . I do , I have a small invert qt tank set up all the time I don't khave sand but bare bottom with light either always on when no inverts present and 14 hr light schedule with inverts in tank . I grow a nice healthy algae on glass and a few pieces of holey rock if I qt shrimp for hiding places . But I do tank transfer method on them too before they go in the qt tank . I tend to be extreme even when not dealing with fish . I suspect everything . Same with coral . My final coral qt tank is setup with a six line wrasse , peppermint shrimp and green crab so as they can get any pests that I may have missed. Initially the coral also goes thru TTM and observation to see if any pests or unwanted algae is on them .