Is 7.7 pH bad?
- Thread starter Fizzman
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NewReefer42
New member
bottled should work just fine. a few extra ions won't hurt anything.
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So I figured I can drill a hole in the wall to the outside, but then the problem is its an airpump not just air inlet to a skimmer. I can't really run the pump from outside. I figure I can put the pump in a container and run a hose outside so the air in the container is outside air but am thinking that's gonna be Hella noisy.
drsalomon
Member
If you are only getting .3 boost outside, then likely your true ph is at least 8.0 because equilibrated with 400 ppm co2 outside, you would expect 8.3. If tank is 8.0 then you should just leave it alone. I run both a scrubber and line outside to skimmer as well as whole house air exchange unit to get ph up. If co2 in house is high, increasing water flow at surface will make it worse and counteract airline to outside. Also sample ph at different times to get a sense of your diurnal swing. Ph will be highest at end of light period and lowest just before lughts on due to photosynthesis
jason2459
Well-known member
Yes there are.
I would calibrate the pH probe with a 7 and 10 solution first and if it has a separate temp probe to make sure to include that in the solution as well. Give each time plenty of time to settle on a number.
As recommended above it's always good to verify test results/equipment. I would not worry about a pH of 7.7 however. This paper here:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025024
surprisingly, found corals have higher protein, chlorophyll and zooxanthellae levels at a pH of 7.5 than at a pH of 8.1. (Check Fig. 1 if you don't want to bother reading the whole paper.)
FYI, calcification is highest at a pH of 7.84 and drops off gradually above and below so calcification in corals continues at pH levels well below 7.84. This is possible even in saltwater with what we would consider an unacceptable pH because the coral is actively manipulating the calcifiying fluid surrounding it's skeleton.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0025024
surprisingly, found corals have higher protein, chlorophyll and zooxanthellae levels at a pH of 7.5 than at a pH of 8.1. (Check Fig. 1 if you don't want to bother reading the whole paper.)
FYI, calcification is highest at a pH of 7.84 and drops off gradually above and below so calcification in corals continues at pH levels well below 7.84. This is possible even in saltwater with what we would consider an unacceptable pH because the coral is actively manipulating the calcifiying fluid surrounding it's skeleton.
Manipulating the extra cellular fluid which is around a pH of 9 enabling the conversion of CHO3 ( bicarbonate )to CO3( carbonate) takes energy and may be assisted by increased photosytnetic activity related to the temperature manipulations in the paper or otherwise in tanks where nutrients are relatively high.
Curious about the source for the 7.84 high point for calcification noted.
To the OPS question: Calcium carbonate does begin to dissolve at 7.7; so 7.7 is a low end threshold to be avoided IMO.nsw is generally around 8.1. Personally, I prefer 8.2 to 8.3 in my system.
Curious about the source for the 7.84 high point for calcification noted.
To the OPS question: Calcium carbonate does begin to dissolve at 7.7; so 7.7 is a low end threshold to be avoided IMO.nsw is generally around 8.1. Personally, I prefer 8.2 to 8.3 in my system.
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Yes. this thread may be of interest:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1889552&highlight=co2+scrubber
jason2459
Well-known member
This article made me think of this thread.
http://www.qualitymarine.com/Ocean-acidification-accelerates-erosion-of-coral-reefs-(11/23/16)
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161122123845.htm
Particularly this part
"
The analysis found that a net loss of coral reef skeletons was occurring due to increased bio-erosion and at the pH tipping point of 7.8, reef frameworks in this region will begin to dissolve away. "
http://www.qualitymarine.com/Ocean-acidification-accelerates-erosion-of-coral-reefs-(11/23/16)
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161122123845.htm
Particularly this part
"
The analysis found that a net loss of coral reef skeletons was occurring due to increased bio-erosion and at the pH tipping point of 7.8, reef frameworks in this region will begin to dissolve away. "
Certainly, This paper, http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/281/1797/20141856 found maximum calcification at pCO2 of 604 (µatm) which translates to a pH of 7.84.
I've been fascinated by the research looking at this subject. This paper, http://www.pnas.org/content/110/5/1567.full shows even though the pH of the calcifying fluid drops the gradient between seawater and the calcifying fluid increases. And even more curious is the relatively newly discovered ability of a coral to maintain pH homeostasis of the calcifying fluid with widely fluctuating external pH, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151006111632.htm (I myself am curious where you got the pH ~9 for the calcifying fluid?)
This may seem hypocritical as I have demonstrated a passion (some might say obsession) to understand the research looking at our reefs which typically translates into numbers but as far as the OP I think addage "Don't chase numbers" should be the take away.
jason2459
Well-known member
I wouldn't suggest chasing numbers either. But I would keep my pH along with all other parameters in a certain range.
I personally would keep pH anywhere between 7.8 and 8.5. Including both ends of a daily swing.
My tank with out keeping things in check would be below 7.8 easily in my house especially in the winter.
If dosing anything that could alter pH I would suggest monitoring the pH.
I would also suggest calibrating the pH probe periodically as they can drift over time. I've got two pH probes that has helped me see when that actually happens as long as they don't end up drifting at the same time at the same rate.
I personally would keep pH anywhere between 7.8 and 8.5. Including both ends of a daily swing.
My tank with out keeping things in check would be below 7.8 easily in my house especially in the winter.
If dosing anything that could alter pH I would suggest monitoring the pH.
I would also suggest calibrating the pH probe periodically as they can drift over time. I've got two pH probes that has helped me see when that actually happens as long as they don't end up drifting at the same time at the same rate.
Tahnks for the links TimFish. I don't have time to read them now or dig up the ECF sources you requested. It's commonly cited at 9. something, in several articles on coral cacification and growth I've read though.
The discussion led me to check the pH on my system last night ; It was 8.02; I added teh CO2 scrubbers and it's now 8.16. It'll go higher through out the day. I keep it at 8.15 to 8.35, including diurnal swing with alk at 8.5. I cdon't consider that to be chasing numbers; just maiatining constancy at good levels.
Off to a football game with my grandson( Bill's vs Jaguars)
The discussion led me to check the pH on my system last night ; It was 8.02; I added teh CO2 scrubbers and it's now 8.16. It'll go higher through out the day. I keep it at 8.15 to 8.35, including diurnal swing with alk at 8.5. I cdon't consider that to be chasing numbers; just maiatining constancy at good levels.
Off to a football game with my grandson( Bill's vs Jaguars)
I calibrated my phone meter. It was low by 0.2 so actual pH is 7.8 and 8.0 during the day. I still want to run an air hose outside. But I can't put the pump outside. Is the Tom's aqua lifter my only option for an air pump with a dedicated inlet vs taking ambient air?
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