Is it LEGAL To Frag and Sell in Florida? Need your help!

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Fanatical

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Good day all.

I am a law student in Orlando, FL and this fall semester I will be writing a research paper with the topic: "To Frag or Not to Frag?" with emphasis on the legality of selling fish/coral from our saltwater aquariums as a hobbyist.

Currently, it appears that it is not legal to sell saltwater fish or coral unless you have a license. Florida has statutes that cover this issue (licensing, etc) and the Fish and Wildlife Commission have their own set of regulations regarding the matter. My professor used to work with the Florida Legislature writing laws so I will include proposed language to change the statutes and regulations to include mention of our hobby and hopefully get my paper submitted to the legislature and the commission to be discussed. I want to make a difference and change the statutes and regulations to forward our hobby.

I'm writing this to get information from the community.

Specifically:

1) any statutes or regulations that you have come across that in any way apply to this topic.

2) contacts at FWC or other agencies that I may be able to get in touch with to get official answers from (personal message me contact info - please do not post personal email/phone info on the message board)

3) how you would like the law changed if you could write the revised version

4) References to scholarly research done on this topic (I need to find actual references for this topic - using a message board won't work on a scholarly paper)

5) anything else that you may deem relevant to this topic

I am asking for positive responses that will help me to create a legitimate scholarly piece of work that CAN affect positive change for Florida reef keepers. I understand that the current laws are not ideal for our love of the hobby so please respond with information that I can use to make a difference.

I look forward to hearing from you. And - yes - I'm an actual person going to law school and actually going to write a research paper on coral (crazy I know). Thanks in advance for your assistance!
 
They were talking about doing this in NV awhile back. I'm glad to see that apparently they have done it in other states and people seem to just ignore it.
 
Have you had admin law yet?
NOAA just closed the notice and comment period on a few species being added to the threatened / endangered classifications of the ESA. For the hobby fragger it's very difficult to id, for example, acropora species with enough specificity to know they aren't listed. But my reading of the law does not include fragging in the definition of "take" (loathe as I am to get anywhere near an interpretation that Scalia would back). Whether or not you address federal restrictions will determine a lot of the research you'll need to do. Even if your prof isn't interested in your thoughts on Sweet Home you'll prolly want to address the intersection of fed protections and state resource management.

ETA you might want to link to the current statutes and regs if you want people to say how they'd like it to be written differently
 
Jlentz said:
They were talking about doing this in NV awhile back. I'm glad to see that apparently they have done it in other states and people seem to just ignore it.
Click to expand...

The FWC here is active on the forums and all other social media. Lat year they traveled to Ocala to bust somebody for selling a saltwater fish on craigs list.

Is easy to be legal...but involves some permits and business license...do a search...has been discussed here frequently...best to be on the legal side in Florida.

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com
 
I wonder if some people will just flush or simply release livestock back thinking that is better than the alternative because of this?
 
I can see it being important to try to regulate professional collectors and whatnot but when this gets applied to hobbyists it just get retarded.

If I wanted to get out of the hobby what's a bigger fine? Trying to sell my lion fish on Facebook or just taking it down to the pier?

Of course, most malum prohibitum laws are retarded, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a lesser penalty to take it to the pier.
 
Jlentz said:
I can see it being important to try to regulate professional collectors and whatnot but when this gets applied to hobbyists it just get retarded.

If I wanted to get out of the hobby what's a bigger fine? Trying to sell my lion fish on Facebook or just taking it down to the pier?

Of course, most malum prohibitum laws are retarded, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a lesser penalty to take it to the pier.
Click to expand...

I eluded to the lion fish...due to the release and infestation of the Atlantic and Caribbean sea...they are every where....but supposedly...they came from fish in the north Atlantic...not the results of hurricane Andrew here in Florida...irregardless...they have taken over the reefs and wreaking havoc...
 
liverock said:
The FWC here is active on the forums and all other social media. Lat year they traveled to Ocala to bust somebody for selling a saltwater fish on craigs list.

Is easy to be legal...but involves some permits and business license...do a search...has been discussed here frequently...best to be on the legal side in Florida.

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com
Click to expand...

The challenge I have heard is for a normal hobbyist that sells a few frags a month the aquaculture license process can be a bit more of a challenge. Either way if I ever start selling I'll figure that out, it's a pretty small fee and isn't worth the risk, IMO.
 
anbosu said:
The challenge I have heard is for a normal hobbyist that sells a few frags a month the aquaculture license process can be a bit more of a challenge. Either way if I ever start selling I'll figure that out, it's a pretty small fee and isn't worth the risk, IMO.
Click to expand...

Issue is....the Aquaculture Certification program in Florida was not meant to encompass the industry at a hobbyist level, but enforcement follows the letter of the law which says if you sell saltwater products you must have a business license <$30.00>, saltwater products license <$125.00>, wholesale license <$400.00> Retail license <$125.00> and an aquaculture permit <$100.00>and be inspected by the department of aquaculture BMP offical.

There is some rumbling in the state to address that issue, but they feel it will just add to the can of worms.

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com :uhoh3:
 
liverock said:
Issue is....the Aquaculture Certification program in Florida was not meant to encompass the industry at a hobbyist level, but enforcement follows the letter of the law which says if you sell saltwater products you must have a business license <$30.00>, saltwater products license <$125.00>, wholesale license <$400.00> Retail license <$125.00> and an aquaculture permit <$100.00>and be inspected by the department of aquaculture BMP offical.

There is some rumbling in the state to address that issue, but they feel it will just add to the can of worms.

Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com :uhoh3:
Click to expand...


So, rather than "selling" you frags in Florida, just give them away for free.

{Hey, I've got this really nice cereal bowl I'll sell you for $50.00. If you buy that, I will toss in this nice coral frag for FREE!} :lol2:
 
cbm369 said:
So, rather than "selling" you frags in Florida, just give them away for free.

{Hey, I've got this really nice cereal bowl I'll sell you for $50.00. If you buy that, I will toss in this nice coral frag for FREE!} :lol2:
Click to expand...

LOL...then you get that knock at the front door...:spin2:
 
Thanks to all for this initial information.

Has anyone had any run-ins with enforcement regarding this issue?

Do you keep receipts for the coral you purchase? If the purchase is from a local fish store, does the liability stay with the store for selling something that's illegal or does it transfer to the person possessing a prohibited/endangered species?
 
FMAS had some people from both the division of agriculture and FWC come to a meeting and talk about this. Basically, all Richard said, even for a hobbyist. Also they said keep your receipts to prove the sources of your mother colonies, hand right notes on species on the receipt if it isn't already printed.
 
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