Is it true...
- Thread starter Random Aquarist
- Start date
bigdaddyadam
New member
"Like I said, the clownfish adapt to the changes but their instincts and DNA do not alter."
The DNA of the animal itself does not alter, but the DNA of offspring may show recessive traits not normally found in larger populations due to dominant traits...take for example red hair in scotland...common there, rare elsewhere...its a close population setting, as world becomes more intergarted and more DNA is in the mating pot, recessive traits such as red hair are breed out in favor of dominant genes...this is not speculation, there is scientific data out the yazoo on this...
the same situation is present in a environment like the CB community, small number of clowns reproducing, after a few generations, you will get some unusual traits emerging due to recessive genes becoming more prevelant.
The DNA of the animal itself does not alter, but the DNA of offspring may show recessive traits not normally found in larger populations due to dominant traits...take for example red hair in scotland...common there, rare elsewhere...its a close population setting, as world becomes more intergarted and more DNA is in the mating pot, recessive traits such as red hair are breed out in favor of dominant genes...this is not speculation, there is scientific data out the yazoo on this...
the same situation is present in a environment like the CB community, small number of clowns reproducing, after a few generations, you will get some unusual traits emerging due to recessive genes becoming more prevelant.
Slakker
Premium Member
IMO:
But those recessive genes won't affect the ability to host an anemone. Some characteristics such as coloration and body shape may be affected, but we're talking thousands of generations before any instinctual behaviors are altered.
If we're gonna use humans, we've been captive bred for over 2000 years now and still much of what people like to call "human nature" has suspected links back to instinctual survival needs from long before we were **** Sapiens.
Clownfish are separated from their Damsel cousins because of the symbiotic relationship they form with anemones. It seems unlikely to me that something as simple as the place of birth of an animal could remove a trait or characteristic that makes that animal what it is.
I can get on board with the idea that maybe the environment that CB clowns are familiar with doesn't present an urgent need to seek refuge in an anemone. I can't agree that somehow the fact that they were bred in captivity removes their ability or instinct to host.
I'm almost tempted to put one of those hideous fake anemones in my QT tank to see what my little pair makes of it...lol.
But those recessive genes won't affect the ability to host an anemone. Some characteristics such as coloration and body shape may be affected, but we're talking thousands of generations before any instinctual behaviors are altered.
If we're gonna use humans, we've been captive bred for over 2000 years now and still much of what people like to call "human nature" has suspected links back to instinctual survival needs from long before we were **** Sapiens.
Clownfish are separated from their Damsel cousins because of the symbiotic relationship they form with anemones. It seems unlikely to me that something as simple as the place of birth of an animal could remove a trait or characteristic that makes that animal what it is.
I can get on board with the idea that maybe the environment that CB clowns are familiar with doesn't present an urgent need to seek refuge in an anemone. I can't agree that somehow the fact that they were bred in captivity removes their ability or instinct to host.
I'm almost tempted to put one of those hideous fake anemones in my QT tank to see what my little pair makes of it...lol.
bigdaddyadam
New member
"But those recessive genes won't affect the ability to host an anemone"
I didn't say that...a lot of animal behavior is not instinct however, it is learned...I have read numerous articles about how clowns know what kind of anemone to go to, it has to do with the smell of the one where their egg was laid...they can apparently follow that smell back all the time in the wild...CB may be harder to get to host simply because they have no reference point by which to find the anemone in the first place
I didn't say that...a lot of animal behavior is not instinct however, it is learned...I have read numerous articles about how clowns know what kind of anemone to go to, it has to do with the smell of the one where their egg was laid...they can apparently follow that smell back all the time in the wild...CB may be harder to get to host simply because they have no reference point by which to find the anemone in the first place
Slakker
Premium Member
Could be...but the problem is we just don't know for sure why. We still don't fully understand how they manage to live in these anemones without triggering the nematocysts. Lots of theories...nothing concrete at this point.
You know...it would be interesting to see if anyone has any spawning Ocellaris or Percula hosting a BTA, and how those particular offspring respond to a BTA as opposed to clowns whose eggs were laid in a tank without an anemone.
bigdaddyadam
New member
"We still don't fully understand how they manage to live in these anemones without triggering the nematocysts"
My understanding is that they do trigger the nematocysts, but for whatever reason are not effected...have heard slime coat as one reason...thus it is my understanding that they are constantly being "stung"
My understanding is that they do trigger the nematocysts, but for whatever reason are not effected...have heard slime coat as one reason...thus it is my understanding that they are constantly being "stung"
elegance coral
They call me EC
I'm sorry, but that is completely wrong. If they were getting stung the tentacles would be sticking to them. A clown fish can slide through the tenticles like it was greased. An anemone contracts its tenticles as it stings. This does not happen when they touch clownfish.
55semireef
Moved On
:lol: :lol: :lol:
NOT!!!
55semireef
Moved On
I agree with elegance coral. I don't believe the anemones are actually firing their nematocysts. From what I have read, I thought the anemone didn't recognize the clownfish mucus coating and therefore does not use its stinging cells at all.
elegance coral
They call me EC
We see in humans that if they are raised in an environment without speach that in time the part of the brain responsable for speach shuts down. Once this happens this person will never learn to speak. A group of shrinks have documented this in several cases around the world. A wild clown fish needs to find an anemone early in life to servive. Most of the cb clowns I see in my lfs are far past this age. Whos to say that given time something dosnt begin to shut down in some of these fish?
Someone mentioned salmon. If we took a bunch of salmon eggs and raised them in captivity untill far past the age they would be when they made it to the open sea. Then released them back into the river where they were collected. Would all of them still know that they should rush down stream?
I keep hearing that it is instinct and evelution that causes a clown to host. For millions of years juvenile clowns have been doing the same thing in roughly the same time frame. Hatch, float around, and find an anemone. We have disrupted this schedual. The cb clown hatches, floats around, then floats around some more. It may not see its first anemone untill it is full grown or close to it. How could you expect all of these fish to act the same way twords an anemone as a fish that has spent its life doing what evolution and instinct has taught it to do?
Our zoos are full of animals that we can not reinterduce into the wild because our influence on them has changed their behavior so dramaticly they can no longer survive in the wild.
Someone mentioned salmon. If we took a bunch of salmon eggs and raised them in captivity untill far past the age they would be when they made it to the open sea. Then released them back into the river where they were collected. Would all of them still know that they should rush down stream?
I keep hearing that it is instinct and evelution that causes a clown to host. For millions of years juvenile clowns have been doing the same thing in roughly the same time frame. Hatch, float around, and find an anemone. We have disrupted this schedual. The cb clown hatches, floats around, then floats around some more. It may not see its first anemone untill it is full grown or close to it. How could you expect all of these fish to act the same way twords an anemone as a fish that has spent its life doing what evolution and instinct has taught it to do?
Our zoos are full of animals that we can not reinterduce into the wild because our influence on them has changed their behavior so dramaticly they can no longer survive in the wild.
elegance coral
They call me EC
55semireff agrees with something I said! Finally! :lol:
55semireef
Moved On
Speech is not an instinct, its a learned behavior. Hosting an anemone are instincts my friend. Don't confuse behavior and instincts.
bigdaddyadam
New member
you know what you are right, my confusion was from incorrectly remebering info from this article...
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/hcs3/index.php
what it says is that fot the first 12-24 hours of life, Amphiprion clarkii are stung but after that they are not
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/hcs3/index.php
what it says is that fot the first 12-24 hours of life, Amphiprion clarkii are stung but after that they are not
55semireef
Moved On
Did the article mention why for the first 12-24 hours they were stung? Was there some type of mucus or immunity they had to build up?
