is my ritteri sick?

[CTaylor]

First,
Thank you to ThRoewer for all advice.
One of my two (was supposed to be just one) ritteri has been deflating at night with exposed stomach. I received it Wednesday. It is well attached to it rock. I'm attaching pic of how it looks part of the night. Last night I caught it looking "bad" about 5 am. I saw it about 1 am (lights were out at 11) and it did not have exposed stomach or deflation at that point. When I saw it again after 12 noon today it looks as in the second and third pic.

The third pic is the mouth. I took that because from the little I know about typical aneomne illnesses, their stomach hangs out as they deflate. My question is if the stomach goes back to normal most of the day, and the mouth looks like it does in the pic most of the day, does that indicate the ritteri is healthy, not sick? And, again, I just got it a few days ago (is it just acclimating). I'm asking b/c I dont want to stress it and medicate it in hospital tank unncessesarily.

TY

 

[CTaylor]

ritteri in treatment now

ritteri in treatment now

Hi,

I put them (I have 2) in treatment.. they are on same rock

The top one is the first sick one. The other one newly has exposed stomach (you cant see it here). Using the treatment protocol, smaller tank b/c they are small nem's and it's what I have. Lights will be out until tomorrow a.m. (it's 6 pm here) so as to not degrade the cipro too much. I dont have a heater, as i think even a small one will have the temp flucuate too much in this small space. I will keep my air temp stable at 77-78 24/7.

The other pic is the set up.

Wish me luck.
*Side note, the perc was superiorly upset when I pulled out his home. He was literally jumping out of the water to get back into his home. It was actually upsetting to watch :-/ .

 

[ThRoewer]

A lot of flow and frequent water changes are key to success.
I don't necessarily change the water every day if it is clear and the anemones in treatment look good. On the other hand I may change the water twice a day or even more often if it looks cloudy. For that reason I prefer to treat in small tanks (5 to 10 gallons).
If you have, you can also put a small, air-operated skimmer in the tank. I didn't get any indication that it would remove the antibiotics or impair the treatment, just the opposite actually. I found that very sick anemones benefit from a skimmer.
Be prepared that the anemones continue to deflate for the first half of the treatment.


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[CTaylor]

I have a about a 90 GPH power head pointed at them.. it moves them nicely, not pounding. The one that was sick first I havent seen look a 'mess' in the last 18 hours. It's been in treatment since about 9 pm last night. The second one has been deflating, I think 1-2 times I seen it before treatment. Today it did it again, so far deflated about 3-4 hours, though it doesnt look like a mess, it's mouth is partly gaped, but it's not like a rag delfated. Some tentacles stayed full.

*So from what i read in the protocol thread, and what you havfe said ThR the main thing to look for a total stop in deflating, even though the mouth may be open, but stomach not 'out'. I think the first one is on its way to health and the second one I caught at it's very start, so I'm witnessing it going through some deflation cycles. They are still dark in color, so the zooanthella seem intact.

I should keep them in treatment for a full 7 days, right?

*How do I 'rinse' their rock they are on of the cipro before introducing back into tank? Maybe for an addiitional two days after treatment, I should do a few 100% water changes and let it diffuse out? and rinse it a few times with fresh DT water?

TY!

 

[ThRoewer]

I think that they have to do a couple of deflating and inflating cycles to get the pathogens of their system.
In any case you need to treat for at least a week. Even then I would not stop treating until they have been stable and healthy looking for at least 2 days.

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[CTaylor]

I think that they have to do a couple of deflating and inflating cycles to get the pathogens of their system.
In any case you need to treat for at least a week. Even then I would not stop treating until they have been stable and healthy looking for at least 2 days.

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The first sick one is deflated now, but guts not hanging out at all whatsoever. The mouth is pretty tight, but raised up a few inches, like a long pucker . I guess that's progress (?) .

 

[ThRoewer]

... The mouth is pretty tight, but raised up a few inches, like a long pucker . ...

That's kind of how the mouth of a maginfica should look like (if the few inches are millimeters).

 

[CTaylor]

Yes, few millimeter .. maybe 1/2 centimeter or so..
**ALso do healthy ritteris deflate their tentacles daily at all? Or is any deflation that happens daily a sure sign of illness?
TY

 

[ThRoewer]

They shouldn't deflate.
They may contract or get slightly limp.
And magnificas are known to close up into large balls at times.

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[CTaylor]

I think my first one that was orig sick may go into slightly limp phase once a day. The second one has it's stomach partly exposed a good part of the day now (the 2nd one was the one that wasnt 'sick' at all up until day or so before treatment).

This is a pic of excretion from the first one. I posted it here because i'm not sure if it's part of anemone and what the black bits are. I guess it's just a poop? lol But it's same color as the 'nem except the black bits. The lighter spots look like same color as the tentacle tips. But it doesnt look like the nem is falling apart. What's it all mean?? lol

 

[ThRoewer]

Those are zooxanthella (the symbiotic algae that give the anemone its brownish color) the anemone expels. Anemone often do that when sick or stressed. It may also be part of the mechanisms the anemone uses to rid itself of the causes of the disease.

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[CTaylor]

Those are zooxanthella (the symbiotic algae that give the anemone its brownish color) the anemone expels. Anemone often do that when sick or stressed. It may also be part of the mechanisms the anemone uses to rid itself of the causes of the disease.

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TY
They seem overall to be progressing.. I even test the water they are in. nearly 0 nitrate and 0.1-0.2 nitrite after a day or so no water change. I'm experinementing less wc to relieve stress on them and me. Somehow the live rock they are on is still filtering the water of the NH3 and NH2. And they are not large nems, so i'm doing 50% every other day. They seem fine with that. It's a bit of a pia to change their water b/c it's a few degrees warmer than water change water from my DT (76-77 lately), the nem tank is 80 (due to the little pump in it). I take 20 gallons out of the DT and have it on reserve for the clown fish and nem hospital. It's a bit time consuming with these two separate treatments.. and then i'm trying to train an orange spot file fish to eat.. ugh

**But the delfations are maybe not even happening in the first nem and seem less severe than the day they peaked in number 2. I'm hoping it stops today fully as I'm reading from the main sick nem treatment post they can show 'all better' as of day one or 2 -- still needing 7+ days of treatment to fully irradicate. I'm on 2 1/2 days now. 3 nights.

 

[ThRoewer]

Do more water changes!
They are not for nutrient control but to remove toxins and pathogens.
BTW, anemones love water changes. They are no stress at all. After a water change they usually look much better.

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[CTaylor]

do more water changes!
They are not for nutrient control but to remove toxins and pathogens.
Btw, anemones love water changes. They are no stress at all. After a water change they usually look much better.

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ok !

 

[CTaylor]

ugh.. i just put a bad looking sebae in the ritteri hospital tank :-/ . Rigth after I did it I was thinking I probably re-infected the ritt's.. but they woudl have anyhow just by going back into DT. **the ritts seem better overall, but still they are deflating, though never looking like a mess. Sometimes the stomach is partly out, looking like gigantic lips. But it seems when it is its less time overall. But it's been since sat night, shouldnt they be 'cured' by now? I'm not trying to rush, but I tried to read what I could in the treatment thread, and it seems many get cure results in 24-48 hrs. Shoudl I up the dose? Would it hurt to put it to 500 mg a day? And since I added the sebae, I guess I need to add 7 more days? :-/ I'm not even sure the sebae has an infection, but it stopped holding on with it's foot, and it was tiny shrunken down, but a total mini of what it was (everyting proportionaly tiny lol). The base was shriveled. My aqauatic animals are in a bad way right now! :-/

I hope everyone gets through this, and I learned alot after!

TY!

 

[ThRoewer]

You have to restart the dosing now... back to one.

You shouldn't buy new animals if you have no free QT/HT...

 

[CTaylor]

You have to restart the dosing now... back to one.

You shouldn't buy new animals if you have no free QT/HT...

ok i'll end the hobby now lol

But how do I get rid of the bacteria in the DT? Or is if that if the ritteri are healthy and not stressed they shoudl be able to fend off infection?

Side note.. when I hoepfully move in the next 6 mo to a larger than 550 sq foot apt lol, then I will likely havfe the space to have a QT. but right now it's literally impossible, but I know it shoudl be had.

 

[CTaylor]

also.. woudl it hurt or maybe help to up the dose to 375 mg per day? or to add the sulfa forte as well?

 

[ThRoewer]

From experience (mine and others) the pathogen that infects anemones doesn't seem to survive without a host or is no longer virulent enough to infect a healthy anemone. Generally, a treatment of the Dt is not necessary (and would be a very bad idea for a number of other reasons.)

Same dose is fine, but doubling the dose is fine as well.
And don't mix Cipro with Septra.

 

[CTaylor]

From experience (mine and others) the pathogen that infects anemones doesn't seem to survive without a host or is no longer virulent enough to infect a healthy anemone. Generally, a treatment of the Dt is not necessary (and would be a very bad idea for a number of other reasons.)

Same dose is fine, but doubling the dose is fine as well.
And don't mix Cipro with Septra.

ok.. I will double it..-- maybe 125 (for 5 gallons) day and 125 for night. i might as well if it can't hurt. and here goes another 7 days . Though I heav ea feeling the sebae doensnt have the infection, it came to me tiny and I dont think it shoudl have been sold. Maybe acclimation problems from colelction to seller to me , IDK. I'll take a pic.

But yes, side note when I move , I shoudl get a three bedroom, one for the fish so then I can dedicate everything there including QT tank