Is our hobby driving the horror?

You want to play Devil's advocate? fine................How many fish do you have?
How many corals?
Where did you get them from?
Were they taken with care or ripped of the reef?
Do you frag and sell?
Do you encourage other people to do this hobbie either directly or indirectly?
How many tanks do you have?
You attack us for reading your post to get a response only to play "Devils Advocate!"

I can't speak for other people but I read this forum to educate myself and to help others, if i can, not to fight. I wish you luck on whatever it is you're trying to do!

That is my response to your post.
 
The atlantic cod fisherman that lived in the boston area use to say "this is our livelyhood we would never do anyting to harm it." Then they proceeded to destroy the carrying capacity of the cod in the area until fishing had to be banned. I think a similar pattern may be developing with the saltwater fish market. I think someone needs to over-regulate the collection of tropical fish. Indoensia allows mimic octopus to be collected, even though everyone understands that they are rare and infrequent. I think marine fish should be so expensive that only a few would be able to afford them. Keeping marine aquariums should be a privalege not a right.

PS. I also think gas prices should be set around $4 a gallon so only a few people can use the roads and everyone else can take public transportation. Again remeber driving is a privelige not a right.
 
What a gas, to think our hobby has an impact on wild populations is pretty arrogant.

Commercial fishing has more to say about reef conditions than any other ocean going influence. You then add on poverty stricken 3rd world countries that harvest with dynamite, poison and anything else they can get their hands on (including commercial nets that have been jettisoned rather than collected and fixed).
Bleaching the fault of the hobbyist? yea right (also the biggest issue on the reefs) I think you will have a problem laying any of the issues on the hobby other than maybe isolated areas that are denuded of a specific species due to harvesting. So blame it on anyone that say has a wild harvested Anemone......

Funny thread for a person to start in a hobby forum other than to just stir up a few emotional types. Hobbyist killing the oceans , man I need a laugh track playing here :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
this is the 39th post with no response from the creator.

Seems like he doesnt want to touch it now that he might have done some research. Lol

Ever see a yellow tang caught and ate. It happens every day all day long. My fish usually last longer than lunch.

What we damage in the reefs is minimal compared to say biulding an airport on water, offshore drilling, global warming, pollution, fishing, etc, etc, etc.................

Most corals are frag grown and not pulled from the ocean anyways. It's free to frag, and the corals are healthy.
 
That doesn't mean that we can or should ignore the damage our hobby does.

Also, at this point the vast bulk of corals for sale in the industry are pulled from the ocean, not fragged or aquacultured.
 
Nobody should ignore the problem, we know it exists.

I'm not sure about my LR or what came on it since I got it from people on RC. <-- Did my part not to destruct the environment here.

My corals are all from frags, of frags, from people on RC <--- Once again did my part to be friendly to the echo system.

My sand came from someone on RC <---- Yet again recycling a once natural product to continue its life instead of the trash can.

Overall the only thing I can think of that I got from the ocean were my fish....... and even then some of them came from RC and 2 rescued from petkiller.

Who's not doing there part. Not I. Its all what you choose to do.
 
10% of the world's Co2 emmisions are generated by the 600 coal-fired electric plants in the U.S., because we are afraid of
nuke power. The hobby is not the problem. Of 7000 islands in
the Philippines how many are collected for corals? NONE ! such is the case in most island groups. Dredging for profit ventures,
as pointed out does far more damage than all the collectors put together. 95% of the islands in the world have never been collected. They are ALL in danger due to human population
and general disrespect for all things non human. We should step
up collecting 10,000% to try to build gene pools of each island group as a hedge against the day, and it will come, when, as we did with so many species on the verge of extinction, the collectors and hobbyists will have the gene pools to save them.
 
I find certain regions of the "Human" gene pool in dire need of a splash of "chlorine" myself...

The same people that are screaming conspiracy and foul about the gas companies making billions on $3 a gallon gas are the exact same people that for 30 years have fought tooth and nail to keep any new refineries from being built (supply and demand is the cause of fuel prices, if we could refine the fuel, it would up the supply, this decreases prices)
It would lead me to believe that these would be the same people blaming hobbyist on the decline of the reefs (oh and they complain about the price of lobster too) :)
 
Hi..

My first post here....so hello everyone.

I'm in the process of setting up my first marine aquarium, and as a lover for all natural life on this planet this was the one topic i was torn over,
I believe that everyone has their part to play however small to protect the reefs from abuse..
By purchasing from reputable dealers and by being INFORMED on which species are NOT suitable for captive living.

I think it's important to discuss these topics and that if someone or informed body could produce a regularly updated list of species that should not be not be kept and LFS be obliged to do so too.

Lets hope some sort of regulation is enforced soon.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7403092#post7403092 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paulster
Hi..

My first post here....so hello everyone.

I'm in the process of setting up my first marine aquarium, and as a lover for all natural life on this planet this was the one topic i was torn over,
I believe that everyone has their part to play however small to protect the reefs from abuse..
By purchasing from reputable dealers and by being INFORMED on which species are NOT suitable for captive living.

I think it's important to discuss these topics and that if someone or informed body could produce a regularly updated list of species that should not be not be kept and LFS be obliged to do so too.

Lets hope some sort of regulation is enforced soon.

[welcome]

Research is key, impulse buys are often big mistakes for most. Most livestock suitable for home tanks is propagated in captivity good for us. There is still a lot of wild caught that is just fine but again, research is critical Good Luck on your new tank!
 
Hmmm, I have been debating about posting, and it got the better of me. When I think about the reefs, and the disrespect that is shown to them, I remember one thing, Who created them. That being said, I also remember that I am not big enough to make a huge positive impact, but the Creator is, and If I listen to God's directions as to what I am to do(After all, he did command mankind to "subdue" the earth) I know that He did not mean to DESTROY it, but to "use it" in a fitting manner. That being said, I know that he would whole heartedly approve of captive breading, and captive propogation. But what of my part?? That is to, as many people have mentioned, educate myself, and to do the best of my ability to keep healthy and productive fish and corals and other reef animals.

However, I feel that the problem is much bigger than an individual issue, after all, look at what the impact of the polution(just solid dremains that settles in our streems, rivers, lakes and oceans)has caused. All that poisoning of the land and waters. You see, that is caused by the greed and pride of the people running the huge corperations. Have they asked God what they should do to "subdue" the Earth?? I am not a judge, but I would have to say, from the results of their actions, absolutely not. I do not feel that laws or more regulations will help(after all, all the laws about guns in schools have only caused more kids to end up dead) I say that each person, not just those in the hobby, but all people need to come to an understanding of how they are commanded to treat this Earth.

The thing that I am trying to point out is that People are the culperates, and they seem to hide behind "the beterment of the world" or "it is for the Company", but in my opinion, it is greed that drives the polution of this planet, and it is greed that drives this hobby. I mean, look at it on an individual basis. Take me, for example, why do I work?? to pay bills, feed my son and me, to buy a few nice things. Why do I strive for more money, a promotion, beter job, be it even a little bit, at some point, it could be grered. I WANT MORE CASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that is what drives the main causes of polution. They want more cash.

I would like to ask, however, what is it that is causing "Global Warrming" Because the few articals that I have either read, or heard in lecture form, have attributed this effect to the mass amounts of CO2 that is being pumpped into the atmosphere. However, the level of this gas has been recorded and measured for over 150 years. Acording to the "Global Warrming" proponents, When "X" amount of CO2 is added to the atmosphere, then the global temp. will raise 1 degree. According to that formula, right now the Earth should be unihabitable, since in over the past 150 Years that they have been recording CO2 in the atmosphere, it has increased many times "X" Making the Temperature way to hot to support life. However, there is a 16 Degree area that the Earths average temperature has maintained over the past 150 years, fluctuating 8 Degrees both ways from the average.

Sorry for such a long post, but I think(if I do not sound like I am totally crazy) that I just might have some form of passion toward this topic. My biggest thing is Responsibility, and many people in charge of things do not have it.


Balduron
 
Do you think God would be ok with us cramming animals into little boxes for our own personal gratification?
 
Absolutely, as long as we did not so as I did when I first enterd the hobby thinking, since my parents had aquariums when I was young, that I knew all I needed to know. Without educating myself, I got a 29G tank and put 2 Oscars, 2 Convicts, 2 Jackdempsies and a Pleco in it. I ended up returning the Dempsies and the Pleco, the Oscars killed the male Convict, one of the Oscars died from HLLE(Head and Lateral Line Erosion).That was grosley stupid, wrong and very sinfull. I have since bought a 75G tank, the Oscar, Female Convict, and a new Pleco are doing gret. I have also added the only survivor of my father's tank, a little 2 " catfish(not sure of the species).

What God expects from us concerning animals is responsability. If we as humans did not domesticate some animals, think of all the chaos that would be caused from the needless hunting of the wild dogs, or Ferril cats. What about horses running wild everywhere, that would cause a great danger to all of us driving on the roads. So that may be diferent from fish, however, God does want us to be happy people, and for some of us, fish make us exceedingly happy. Others, like my son, do not care for fish,however, he is using my 29G tank for his Bearded Lizzard. God just expects us to be responsible and provide our pets with a good healthy life.
 
you know what I think.... i think this guy just bombed out on he's own thread.... where you hidng at axepilot?.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7420620#post7420620 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Balduron
Absolutely, as long as we did not so as I did when I first enterd the hobby thinking, since my parents had aquariums when I was young, that I knew all I needed to know. Without educating myself, I got a 29G tank and put 2 Oscars, 2 Convicts, 2 Jackdempsies and a Pleco in it. I ended up returning the Dempsies and the Pleco, the Oscars killed the male Convict, one of the Oscars died from HLLE(Head and Lateral Line Erosion).That was grosley stupid, wrong and very sinfull. I have since bought a 75G tank, the Oscar, Female Convict, and a new Pleco are doing gret. I have also added the only survivor of my father's tank, a little 2 " catfish(not sure of the species).

What God expects from us concerning animals is responsability.


That seems odd given the first paragraph.

If we as humans did not domesticate some animals, think of all the chaos that would be caused from the needless hunting of the wild dogs, or Ferril cats.

In the US, we 'put to sleep' over 2 million dogs and cats a year.

What about horses running wild everywhere, that would cause a great danger to all of us driving on the roads.

?

So that may be diferent from fish, however, God does want us to be happy people, and for some of us, fish make us exceedingly happy. Others, like my son, do not care for fish,however, he is using my 29G tank for his Bearded Lizzard. God just expects us to be responsible and provide our pets with a good healthy life.

What about all the fish that die during collection, transport, wholesale, and LFS?
 
"All the fish that die" due to the hobby still is not a drop in the bucket to the sealife from turtles to dolphins to sharks and whales killed as bycatch by the commercial fishing industry.

It is nothing compared to the extinction or nearly so, of many native species of fishes RIGHT HERE IN THE U.S., the draining of
the Colorado River so Desert megalopolises can look like jungles while the Sea of Cortez loses its greatest freshwater source.
THAT is the horror. Not the hobby.

Mountaintop mining in the Appalachains silting in countless hundreds of streams. Pacific NW clearcut logging making
some salmon species endangered and or extinct.

I could go on forever. Someone please stop me.

How is the hobby the horror? The environmental horrors are
occurring daily near you, and most of the U.S. population doesn't care.

Someone please stop the insanity
 
The hobby can be pretty horrible. Look at a bad collecting station or a bad LFS. That doesn't mean that there are other things out there that are worse, but we shouldn't use that as an excuse for the 'horror' the hobby contributes.
 
birdfish - You make the same point as many have on this thread, but we are still a part of the problem. We are a very small percentage, but still a percentage! That point will be made again and again. We can go back and forth and argue all day and it will accomplish nothing! The fact is clear, we need to do something to minimize the impact of our hobby. I am a part of it just as you are, and i try to minimize my impact as, hopefully, everyone else on these forums.

Your right on nobody caring. It seems that is the American, and/or World attitude towards just about everything.
 
Back
Top