Italy's Best! Matured SPS Aquariums.
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Robert Patterso
New member
I don't think mixing this food with the zeo is a very good idea. Seems I read reports of people using the zeo with the papone were having problems with stn/rtn. Don't think I would risks it. With the vodka/sugar dosing being there is sugar in the recipe it may or not be ok. From what I gather from the vodka dosing you are pretty well stripping the tank of nutrients and thus you have to feed more. That is if you are running BB though. So if your vodka dosing don't dose the sugar being your basically dosing with the pappone which you would feed probably a max of 3x a week.
HTH.
baloutang
New member
Currently, I'm not running BB, Zeo or doing vodka/sugar dosing.
I made up the recipe, but after re-reading the thread (once everything was all mixed up) I realized I forgot to rinse before putting in a blender....do you think this will be a big issue (scratching my head and thinking of phosphate spike)????
I'd just hate to spend another 20 bucks to redo the whole recipe. Although I did freeze some of the leftover "live" stuff I did have and wonder if I could use those if necessary.
I made up the recipe, but after re-reading the thread (once everything was all mixed up) I realized I forgot to rinse before putting in a blender....do you think this will be a big issue (scratching my head and thinking of phosphate spike)????
I'd just hate to spend another 20 bucks to redo the whole recipe. Although I did freeze some of the leftover "live" stuff I did have and wonder if I could use those if necessary.
baloutang
New member
Currently, I'm not running BB, Zeo or doing vodka/sugar dosing.
I made up the recipe, but after re-reading the thread (once everything was all mixed up) I realized I forgot to rinse before putting in a blender....do you think this will be a big issue (scratching my head and thinking of phosphate spike)????
I'd just hate to spend another 20 bucks to redo the whole recipe. Although I did freeze some of the leftover "live" stuff I did have and wonder if I could use those if necessary.
I made up the recipe, but after re-reading the thread (once everything was all mixed up) I realized I forgot to rinse before putting in a blender....do you think this will be a big issue (scratching my head and thinking of phosphate spike)????
I'd just hate to spend another 20 bucks to redo the whole recipe. Although I did freeze some of the leftover "live" stuff I did have and wonder if I could use those if necessary.
Robert Patterso
New member
If everything other than the shrimp was live I really don't think I would worry to much about it. Hopefully your only going to feed no more than once a week for 4-6 weeks. Just keep some GFO going and you should be alright. This recipe is very high in protiens so it's the nutrients that could become a problem. Don't forget to turn your skimmer back up the next morning.
Robert Patterso
New member
Yes you can use the frozen if you need to. Forgot to mention that...
baloutang
New member
Thanks Robert!
I plan on going very slowly with this method 1- 5ml cube/week for awhile. I was amazed to see my ORA blue tort so darn blue following one dosage.
Although I thought we were to run the skimmer for extra O2 but without the cup and remove the filter sock...is it really suppose to be off all night?
I don't currently run GFO, but carbon, hopefully that will work for the time being.
I plan on going very slowly with this method 1- 5ml cube/week for awhile. I was amazed to see my ORA blue tort so darn blue following one dosage.
Although I thought we were to run the skimmer for extra O2 but without the cup and remove the filter sock...is it really suppose to be off all night?
I don't currently run GFO, but carbon, hopefully that will work for the time being.
Robert Patterso
New member
Your right, your not supposed to turn your skimmer off just down to keep the O2 up. When you are able I would definetly get some GFO going, Rowa Phos or the likes. Make sure you keep you parimeters up. Try to get them up on the high side if your able. Mag. at around 1500 which will help you keep your Ca. and Alk up. Odds are you already knew that but thought I would mention it anyway.
baloutang
New member
Did anyone get an outbreak of cyno (red slime algae) when using this method??
I dosed last week (1st and only time and less than 5 ml for a 150 gal) and my skimmer is running and is cleaned all the time. I did a 30% water change as well and am running carbon. I'm not running GFO at the moment, but plan on it. Prior to all of this, I checked my params and my NO3 and PO4 were at 0.
I tested NO3 and PO4 with still no readings (I know there's really no good test kit for PO4)
Do you think running GFO will help as well as do you think having a shallow sandbed is the problem?
I dosed last week (1st and only time and less than 5 ml for a 150 gal) and my skimmer is running and is cleaned all the time. I did a 30% water change as well and am running carbon. I'm not running GFO at the moment, but plan on it. Prior to all of this, I checked my params and my NO3 and PO4 were at 0.
I tested NO3 and PO4 with still no readings (I know there's really no good test kit for PO4)
Do you think running GFO will help as well as do you think having a shallow sandbed is the problem?
Robert Patterso
New member
May want to think about increasing your flow in the areas that have the cyno
baloutang
New member
Yeah, you are absolutely right. I had a few MJ 1200's on a wave maker and realized it was not running....I got that going and removed all cyno I could find (including what I could get in my water column).
Is it safe to still dose without GFO, I've got a shipment coming in a few days or should I wait out another week.
Is it safe to still dose without GFO, I've got a shipment coming in a few days or should I wait out another week.
Robert Patterso
New member
If your getting it I'd go ahead and use it. I see no reason to wait. Just use as recommended and you'll be fine.
AA's ?
AA's ?
I believe that the Italians were trying to figure out what particular amino acids the HGH was breaking down to in the freezing process so these could be better targeted, right? I didn't see them state that they came up with their findings, but I started to see a lot more postings concerning L-Glutamine and L-Asparagine... Was it concluded that these were the aminos they were searching for--of did I miss something?
AA's ?
I believe that the Italians were trying to figure out what particular amino acids the HGH was breaking down to in the freezing process so these could be better targeted, right? I didn't see them state that they came up with their findings, but I started to see a lot more postings concerning L-Glutamine and L-Asparagine... Was it concluded that these were the aminos they were searching for--of did I miss something?
scase not sure this will answer your question but this is my take:
I dont think we know what amino acids we need as humans much less the research done on aquarium beasties. Amino acid are building blocks in organisms so a variety would be good.
The Human growth hormone HGH comes from placentas from human females and is illegal in the USA but legal in Italy at the moment. The point of adding the HGH in the papone was that it broke down into amino acids which are building blocks for many processes and chemical reactions in human fish and possibly invertebrates. By changing the Italian formula, removing HGH and substituting amino acids and vitamins the formula remains essentially the same. Your tank parameters, physical and chemical, may vary and make some changes necessary to customize the formula to maximize your results.
As I see it your basically chopping up clams shrimp and mussels into bite size bits for the tanks small mouths and skin absorptions and boosting it with vitamins, minerals and amino acids like gut loading.
The sugar feeds the bacteria and that helps balance the overfeeding with the pappone to take care of waste so nitrogen levels stay low. remember they are using this in Berlin style tanks but it seems to work in deep sand beds tolerably well.
SO how far off is that? Anyone?
Len
I dont think we know what amino acids we need as humans much less the research done on aquarium beasties. Amino acid are building blocks in organisms so a variety would be good.
The Human growth hormone HGH comes from placentas from human females and is illegal in the USA but legal in Italy at the moment. The point of adding the HGH in the papone was that it broke down into amino acids which are building blocks for many processes and chemical reactions in human fish and possibly invertebrates. By changing the Italian formula, removing HGH and substituting amino acids and vitamins the formula remains essentially the same. Your tank parameters, physical and chemical, may vary and make some changes necessary to customize the formula to maximize your results.
As I see it your basically chopping up clams shrimp and mussels into bite size bits for the tanks small mouths and skin absorptions and boosting it with vitamins, minerals and amino acids like gut loading.
The sugar feeds the bacteria and that helps balance the overfeeding with the pappone to take care of waste so nitrogen levels stay low. remember they are using this in Berlin style tanks but it seems to work in deep sand beds tolerably well.
SO how far off is that? Anyone?
Len
DarkXerox
New member
Well hGH used to be collected from cadavers, but that stopped after the 1990's as recombinant methods took over (since you get viral inactivation, higher safety, higher protein titers at lower COGS, etc.).
But everything else you said is correct and really is how basic this method is. Carbon source + amino acids, thats all it is.
I'll translate the May issue this week when I get some downtime. There is one really interesting part that came up in the last year or so which will make the method even easier to maintain. I'll keep the suspense by waiting till I post the whole article
dflad
New member
here is an interesting article related to this topic. Hopefully everyone can see the reference or the pdf, but just in case.
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/211/6/860
The Journal of Experimental Biology 211, 860-865
Published by The Company of Biologists 2008
doi:10.1242/jeb.012807
Uptake of dissolved free amino acids by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata
Renaud Grover1,*, Jean-François Maguer2, Denis Allemand1 and Christine Ferrier-Pagès1
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/211/6/860
The Journal of Experimental Biology 211, 860-865
Published by The Company of Biologists 2008
doi:10.1242/jeb.012807
Uptake of dissolved free amino acids by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata
Renaud Grover1,*, Jean-François Maguer2, Denis Allemand1 and Christine Ferrier-Pagès1
Dudester
Premium Member
Not necessarily important for this thread per se, but it's worth mentioning that we actually do know which amino acids are essential in humans. For all you biology geeks out there, these include phenylalanine, valine, threonine, tryptophan, leucine, isoleucine, methionine, histidine and lysine.
trueblackpercula
New member
Any updated picutres?
P.S. people stop trying to look for Hgh, there are other ways to skin a cat
Michael
P.S. people stop trying to look for Hgh, there are other ways to skin a cat
Michael
trueblackpercula
New member
Can someone put me onto a link where i can view Mr. paolo broggi tank you know the tank that is first in this thread I want to learn more about this set up as it is my idol tank.........
Thanks
Michael
I want to learn more about this set up as it is my idol tank.........Thanks
Michael
