It's time, let's see those SPS tanks using LEDs 1 year or longer

[jeffreylesser]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. I am now running my whites at 65%. I am sure that at less than 50% I would still have enough PAR to grow any SPS. This is one of the selling point of LED's IMHO. You can pretty much dial in any color you are looking for by changing the ratio of blue, white, royal blue. I like a 14k look during the day switching to a 20k look at night. I love that I can slowly ramp power and change the color so easily. Being able to grow corals at 50% white power should be a good thing. What am I missing?

The poster is probably thinking at 50% power there would not be enough PAR from the LEDs. It probably depends on the setup. I have seen some PAR threads on the AI units and at 50% it would still be a good amount of PAR. According to their website it puts out 400+ PAR at 24" at 100%. This seems to coincide with the few independent PAR threads I have read on the AI units. Not sure about the Vertex unit the poster is referring to.

 

[cthedaytrader]

well in 10 more months i'll show you some pics. I used to run 400w radiums and never saw the growth that i am getting under my 120 leds over my 96x24x20 tank. running 50/50 rb/cw. colors are better than what i had with my radiums, i ran my radiums on HQI ballasts. my last tank,180g took a few months, 4-6 until i needed mt carx, this tank took 1 month until i needed to start dosing and am working on the carx right now. i am using just shy of 2dkh alk a day and 20ppm ca. only have two softball sized colonies and about 20 frags.

I look foward to seeing some update, although I dont think its fair comparison to compare growth rates of radiums. From my experiences, 20K or radiums are more known for the ability to bring out colors, and with some sacrifice as to growth, while 10k's are better for growth, I remember way back when some reefers would use 10k bulbs earlyon to grow out their tanks and switch to 20Ks.

tnx, i dont think its from the rocks, i dont know what happened to be sure. Probaly becaus i feed to well, to keep my anthias fed, and forgot to exchange the rowaphos


converting the system to biopellets i a week or so, running old style sulfor filter now.

good luck with the battle!

Yes, you can get the blue color that brings out flourescent pigments. But, like you said, that can be done with others; for example, you can grow SPS with ATI Blue +'s, but they are quite blue. I've seen some people use only these bulbs.

Also, supplemental lighting doesn't typically have enough power to grow SPS, because it's 'supplemental' lighting. Obviously, there are exceptions.

My final thoughts are this; as long as the light (whether MH, T5, LED's, etc.) will grow the corals well and deliver the colors for which I'm looking (overall look of the tank or corals), then I'm satisfied. In the end, it's the taste of the user that counts. Just my thoughts.

Yes I would agree, but the issue might be if someone is changing the lighting specifically to take pics and post them. If I was buying coral generally I want to see it under normal lighting conditions, not just actinics. But I would agree, you can grow under Blue + bulbs.

I have three AI units over my 48" 75g. I did not want to replace my canopy so I mounted them on a rail inside it. They are less than 6 inches off the water. They look great and I have been thrilled with the change so far. I am at 5 months. Even with the standard optics the light appears uniform to the eye in my tank. The spotlight effect I worried about isn't an issue in my setup.

Can we see pics then?

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. I am now running my whites at 65%. I am sure that at less than 50% I would still have enough PAR to grow any SPS. This is one of the selling point of LED's IMHO. You can pretty much dial in any color you are looking for by changing the ratio of blue, white, royal blue. I like a 14k look during the day switching to a 20k look at night. I love that I can slowly ramp power and change the color so easily. Being able to grow corals at 50% white power should be a good thing. What am I missing?

I suppose the concern is if people are taking pics under one lighting condition but that isnt the light growning the corals if that makes sense.

The poster is probably thinking at 50% power there would not be enough PAR from the LEDs. It probably depends on the setup. I have seen some PAR threads on the AI units and at 50% it would still be a good amount of PAR. According to their website it puts out 400+ PAR at 24" at 100%. This seems to coincide with the few independent PAR threads I have read on the AI units. Not sure about the Vertex unit the poster is referring to.

I dont see a probolem with dialing a fixture down if it is too powerful it is too powful, but I guess the quesiton is if you are growing the corals under one setting and then taking the pictures under heavy blue or heaving actinics.

 

[jeffreylesser]

I look forward to seeing some update, although I don't think its fair comparison to compare growth rates of radiums. From my experiences, 20K or radiums are more known for the ability to bring out colors, and with some sacrifice as to growth, while 10k's are better for growth, I remember way back when some reefers would use 10k bulbs early on to grow out their tanks and switch to 20Ks.

I am running Radiums and my daily alk consumption is currently around 3.4 dKH. I am getting tremendous growth under radiums. I don't feel I have sacrificed much, if anything. If I had much more growth I would have a difficult time managing my Ph using ESV 2 part. But I suppose you are right, how would growth of corals under LEDs compare to growth under an Iwasaki 6500k if you really wanted to test the best growth rates of each. In the end, I think most of us are looking for a balance between growth and color.

 

[cthedaytrader]

How about some pics? Should we take a vote on lowering the time frame lol. I would have throught there were more running at least a year or close to a year.

 

[Bax]

In January, I hung two 120w Chinese LEDs over my 75 g frag tank without any other lighting and ran them for a few months. These are 2w 55/45 rb/cw. With out a doubt I had pretty decent, even really good SPS growth depending upon the specific coral. These "low end" LED fixtures don't have the control of the "high end" fixtures, in terms of timing and dimmability, so I could not play with the color.

Under these LEDs all my SPS grew but the colors were quite variable. Blues and greens were crazy good like on a Hulk Acro or my Oregon Tort. Purples were really pastel on my Miami Orchid, Nana, Valida and such. Yet, my purple digi & Idaho grape cap grow like a weeds with great purple color under it.

About four months ago I moved the LEDs over to my 5' long 100 g display with a 12K 400 watt SE ReefLux on a CoralVu ballast as a "supplement" to the LEDs. I only burn the MH bulb about 4.5 hours a day. I placed corals that were not giving me the color I desired under the straight LEDs closer to the center of the tank.

I love this combo! My chiller went from running 24/7 last summer to coming on around 11:30 and going off around 6 PM or earlier depending upon how scorching the day was. And we have had some super hot weather here a has most of the country this summer.

My next effort involves a "high end" fixture. I just bought a Orphek PR156, this is an amazing light. Extremely controlable like an AI or a ReefTek, I can not wait to get my hands on this puppy. It'll go over my frag tank and run solo for 3-4 months for a comparison! It will end up over my new 150 g tank at home with a 12K 400w ReefLux in an LA mini for supplementation. I'll let you know how that goes! :smokin:

 

[roberto_lopes]

Well, checkout on my reef. LEDs for more than two and a half years. 95% SPS tank.

Hope you guys enjoy.

Some pics to encourage your visit.

More pics on the reef itself.

 

[allsps40]

LEDs work very well for sps. I agree the red leds adding to the blue and white makes a more natural color and the sps seem to color up better as well. Still the price is to high and needs to come down.

 

[cthedaytrader]

Sweet Tank Roberto I have seen your thread excellent job, do you have any progression pics of the tank? What type of LEDs did you have before the AI SOl Blues?

 

[daveonbass]

to M007 and cthedaytrader:

I do not understand your tredpidation on the issue of LEDs being run at 50% or less. It's just saying that the LEDs are using even LESS power to run as efficently as a MH at 100%. (and at the cost of much more electricity/heat)

It doesn not mean at all that they are inefficent, quite the contrary, it means they are MORE efficent. In other words, they are not running them at 50% to try and trick you into buying a coral that looks good only at a certain color raiting. (by the way how is that different from viewing a coral under 10K, 14K, or 20k bulbs? they all give a slightly different appearance) They are simply running them at 50% to give off the proper amount of light for both color and growth, while not bleaching out the coral from too much PAR, which is easy to do with many of the mid to high end LED fixtures. It's like having someone show you THEIR ideal looking tank, like mentioned before; 20K with VHO suppliments. Is this guy trying to trick you with the suppliments? Of course not, that's just how he feels the corals looked and grew best and thus voiced his opinion on the matter. And if you went to his house and saw that older set up I would be shocked if you asked him to show you the corals under "normal" lighting...casue that IS his normal lighting. You wouldn't ask him to put a frag under a standard 10K lamp just to say that it's not as colorful under "normal" lighting. It's the same reason why online vendors that sell WYSIWYG corals always tell you what lights they use and that colors will look different under different conditions.

I guess the issue I have with this misunderstanding of the 50% issue is this: What are we LED people suppoest to compare our lights to for any of you to be satisfied?

Do leds have enough light to bleach out a whole tank? YES
Do leds have enough light to grow corals like a 10K? YES
Can leds be made to look like the color of a 10,14, or 20K MH? YES
Will it still grow and make colors pop under said color shifts? YES

Yes to all. Now granted not all LEDs are created equal...so research is still warranted, but the same is still true for the old MH and VHO combos. (as well as T5 and dare I mention CF) So it's not a simple "any LED can do all the jobs of a MH (and it's many combos)." But instead you need to see that many people are testing the PAR under both the white only, blue only and different combos. And just because the blue is at a higher % than the white doesn't mean that the growth is any less (or color). For example, the AI PAR thread on here has shown that the SOL Blue fixture with it's blues at 100% give off MORE PAR than the white LEDs. AND add to that the theory that the blues are being "under" rated because the Blue spectrum from LEDs are difficult for the meter to measure. So add 10% to 40% to the PAR value of the blue LEDs, depending on who you ask, thus increasing the overall PAR for the entire fixture.

I know that on my test tank for LEDs, the bulbs are mixed...a row of 6 RB, a row of 6 CW, and a row of 6 in a a combo of those (B W B W B W), with the combo being in front. The whites and the combo are on one dial, and the row of just blues are on another dial. I have the back row of blues at 100%, and the whites and combos I turn on just enough to come on...so like 10% and it's growing corals just fine. (all softies and one hammer frag so far, but great growth on them). A RBTA is the star of that tank is it LOVES the ammount of light...which is all blue and a tiny bit of white. It's a very 20K look and that is just where it's set. I don't have a controler so I can't auto ranmp them up or down, so the timers just kick them on at those levels. the growth is faster than under my ATI PM 6x39w fixture in my main tank. (same corals being tested are in both tanks) It costs me a whole lot more to run the ATI over the LED...so for me it's a no brainer that LEDs are here to stay and are taking over.

Back to the actual point...Running at 50% IS something to keep the excitement over. Imagine being able to run your MH or T5 fixtures at 50% or even 10% and still get the same amount to of growth and color...it would be so much more cost effective. This is the gift that LEDs bring to us in the reef hobby.

 

[NatureNerd]

Okay, here are some of my corals. I always hate to put images up here lest someone judge one aspect (like lighting) from my results. My tank has its own issues. A 15 year-old, deep sandbed is probably a bigger factor than my lighting for the appearance of my corals. But here goes anyway. Below are before and after shots of about 5 months of AI Sol lights. I came from supplemented 2 X 175W 10k MH's. 75g, 48" tank that has been running for a long time. I did not spend a lot of time taking the photos so be kind on the photo-skills comments.

Bonsai before:

After five months:

Digitata before:

After:

Plana (I think) before:

After:

 

[daveonbass]

well that settles it...I want an AI still...haha. great Before and after pics, thanks.

 

[NatureNerd]

cthedaytrader and others: From the above images, note the digitata shifting from peach to pink colored. It is way too high in the tank now. It has grown from 1.5" to 6" and is now only above 5" from the surface. Probably too much light for it. All these pict were shot with my light at what looks like 12-14k setting to my eyes. It is fairly white lighting, not what I run at night when everything pops with color.

Growth on all these has been as good as I have ever experienced. PE is better than I had before. Color is different but as pleasing. Here are two more I don't have before shots but I grew both these guys from 1" frags. They are now a little over 2" in size:

This last one looks more green in person. Somehow my camera wants to make it look yellow. Either way, it is really pretty in person.

For the record, I still think the best SPS growth is had by using 10k MH, supplemented with some blue source. That said, I could not deny the energy savings, "tunability", flexibility, safety, and lack of tank heating of the LED's. So far, I am a happy reef guy.

 

[NatureNerd]

Well, checkout on my reef. LEDs for more than two and a half years. 95% SPS tank.

Wow! I hope my reef someday approaches what you have achieved. Amazing! Well done.

 

[roberto_lopes]

Thanks a lot NatureNerd.

I'm using LEDs since begining 2009 initially with Ecolamps (Acanlight) KR92 and for about 6 months ago, with 10 AI SOL BLUE modules.

The tank runs cool (here is difficult, after all I'm in Brazil) and in terms of lightning i'm pretty satisfied.

The colors are not at the best because recently I had oodinium on my tank and because of the SUPER FEED to don't loose all my fish, the colors have faded a little.

I'll move to a Bare Bottom on about a month. Lots of work to do then.

 

[gasman059]

excellent work
My experience with sol white was not as good. BTW i had the same process converting my sand into barebottom due to similar issues.

Currently on T5's

 

[roberto_lopes]

Yes, I remember that thread about LED.

20 days from now to move to BB and a white Starboard ....

 

[ReefTankHunter]

Avoid buying leds for sps tanks, I don't think they've evolved enough yet for sps. Imho they're not quite good enough and the price is too high for what is effectively an inferior lighting choice.

Give it a few more years and both these problems should improve or maybe even be fixed :thumbsup:

Tony, Tell how big your tank is and what type of t5 fixture is. I also use t5 ATI fixture over a 90. Have a few sps growing.

 

[roberto_lopes]

Avoid buying leds for sps tanks, I don't think they've evolved enough yet for sps. Imho they're not quite good enough and the price is too high for what is effectively an inferior lighting choice.

Give it a few more years and both these problems should improve or maybe even be fixed :thumbsup:

You must be kidding right ?!?

I think that for the majority , the price is the major issue.

I think that the question for a long time is not IF LEDs are good enough to SPS. Yes, they are.

The measures on TOP fixtures and DIY fixtures made with good leds and lenses are higher than ANY 205W MH and equal than many 400W MH on the market today.

The growing is awesome and the colors, well, pics says more than words.

So, money is the biggest issue followed by the light distribution. Today to cover a 90" tank, I'm using 10 fixtures.

I have two seashine Plasma fixtures as well. That is the real crap. It is lighting my garden now!

 

[NatureNerd]

excellent work
My experience with sol white was not as good. BTW i had the same process converting my sand into barebottom due to similar issues.

Currently on T5's

Ironically, it was some of your earlier posts that got me looking into switching to LED. I have the Sol Super Blue units. In my particular tank, every tank is different, they seem to be doing great with some very minor negatives. My Ponape Birdnest is a bit too pale for my taste and my m. digitata went from peach to pink in color. Not a big deal though.

I can't remove my deep sand because of an anemone I have had for 15 years whose foot is connected to the largest rock and the bottom of the tank. I won't risk hurting this guy.

 

[marinelife]

My LEDs built in March 2010:
48 - CREE XP-G R5 Cool White 3W with 65 degree optics
48 - CREE XR-E Royal Blue 3W with 60 degree optics
24 - CREE XP-E Royal Blue 3W with 55 degree optics

I have 3 fixtures split the following way:
16 - CREE XP-G R5 Cool White 3W with 65 degree optics
16 - CREE XR-E Royal Blue 3W with 60 degree optics
8 - CREE XP-E Royal Blue 3W with 55 degree optics

All ran by timers

Par reading as follows:
150-160 Sand
400-500 Top Rock depending on the side of the tank you are checking.

I also have 2 boostLEDs PARs with 3 Red and 2 white LEDs

Each Heatsink has an IceCap variable speed fan on it.

Full 375 Gallon SPS tank shot with all LEDs on, not the best picture: