Join me for a strange one...
- Thread starter kcress
- Start date
mtnbiker44
New member
The free shipping was a weekly special. Bought 6 bags of sand. I dont think they made any money off me that day!
Love it!
You know what they say? Never pay full price!
kcress
New member
Here's a first hack at a sump. I don't need a bulkhead because the pump will always be flooded once primed. It was a good thing I went that way as that sump is tooooooOOO small. Stopping the system would overflow it by about 3 gallons which is cutting things way to close. I will be building a large ATS so I didn't want the sump any larger than it needs to be.
BTW This is what's down inside the discharge tower.
With much anticipation and excitement I started filling it. I decided to fill the sump while the return pump lifted it up to the tank. I was amazed that we had to run a 3/4" garden hose with 100psi at half open to even keep up with the pump.
A buddy had to manage the hose because at that flow it would do the whip-around thing.
Almost full.
The tank is over full! You can see the ceramic wall top is below the water level. This would be a problem as it would be unsightly and would have stuff growing on the rear wall I couldn't clean off. It also is just too deep.
Another shot of the too-deep. You can't see it but the water is hitting the bottom of the top even!!
Why so deep?
You can see how the plates are partially blocking the weirs. When running I could see the water level behind the plates being about 1/4" lower. That's bad because it means I'm not actually 'skimming' but rather water is having to come from everywhere including up from behind the plates from below the surface. Any water that goes through the weir that isn't surface water - is water not skimmed.
To fix the too-full problem I had to grind down the ceramic. This took a while. Then the ^(*%$%! tungsten carbide bit flew out of the Dremel and landed down in the water in some crevice of the back wall!! ARGH! It took about 20 minutes to find it then 10 minutes to try to grab it with no success. I finally used one of the super magnets given to me earlier to retrieve it. I just stuck it to a coat hanger and then got it near the cutter and zip! I got it back with much rejoicing. No telling if that would poison a tank.
Just lowering the ceramic wasn't enough. The water was still about 1/4" over the plates. I had to Dremel down the tooth gaps. I finally got the water level down level with the rear ceramic wall.
Once the weir teeth were lowered and the plates were trimmed down I was satisfied with the water height. With just open stand pipes in the overflow I was able to trim the flooded channel pipe to the point where not much water was going down the open-channel pipe. Very little noise. Once I properly cap them it should be silent.
I'm amazed by how little water gets thru these weirs. Because it has a hard time squeezing thru with its high surface tension, the water level is about 3/4" higher than the bottom of the teeth.
BTW This is what's down inside the discharge tower.
With much anticipation and excitement I started filling it. I decided to fill the sump while the return pump lifted it up to the tank. I was amazed that we had to run a 3/4" garden hose with 100psi at half open to even keep up with the pump.
A buddy had to manage the hose because at that flow it would do the whip-around thing.
Almost full.
The tank is over full! You can see the ceramic wall top is below the water level. This would be a problem as it would be unsightly and would have stuff growing on the rear wall I couldn't clean off. It also is just too deep.
Another shot of the too-deep. You can't see it but the water is hitting the bottom of the top even!!
Why so deep?
You can see how the plates are partially blocking the weirs. When running I could see the water level behind the plates being about 1/4" lower. That's bad because it means I'm not actually 'skimming' but rather water is having to come from everywhere including up from behind the plates from below the surface. Any water that goes through the weir that isn't surface water - is water not skimmed.
To fix the too-full problem I had to grind down the ceramic. This took a while. Then the ^(*%$%! tungsten carbide bit flew out of the Dremel and landed down in the water in some crevice of the back wall!! ARGH! It took about 20 minutes to find it then 10 minutes to try to grab it with no success. I finally used one of the super magnets given to me earlier to retrieve it. I just stuck it to a coat hanger and then got it near the cutter and zip! I got it back with much rejoicing. No telling if that would poison a tank.
Just lowering the ceramic wasn't enough. The water was still about 1/4" over the plates. I had to Dremel down the tooth gaps. I finally got the water level down level with the rear ceramic wall.
Once the weir teeth were lowered and the plates were trimmed down I was satisfied with the water height. With just open stand pipes in the overflow I was able to trim the flooded channel pipe to the point where not much water was going down the open-channel pipe. Very little noise. Once I properly cap them it should be silent.
I'm amazed by how little water gets thru these weirs. Because it has a hard time squeezing thru with its high surface tension, the water level is about 3/4" higher than the bottom of the teeth.
kcress
New member
As I drained the tank I tried to get feel for the flow coming out of the jets. This is just one jet after I turned the speed down to about 1500RPM from 1725.
What's goes on in the discharge tower. Five 3/4 nozzles are pointed at strategic ports in the hide. Note this is with the VFD turned down to 15Hz
The flow was really nice. You could see the surface water flowing towards the center from both sides. A small whirlpool formed in the left bottom corner as I could see the dust rotating in a 3 inch circle on the bottom.
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Now for the really bad news...
The big pump is too loud. I thought I could run at about 30 Hz like a lot of folks seem to manage. But I really needed about 55 Hz. The pump makes noise at this speed. Heck it does at even 30 Hz too. It's not LOUD but it's still too much for my living-room. I tried to pin down the noise. Where exactly it was originating. I'm not sure if it's the motor or the pump. Earlier I ran just the motor with the VFD and it was quiet enough so I have to conclude it might be just the noise of the water racing thru the pump.
But worse.. I turned up the VFD carrier frequency until I can't hear it at all. Unfortunately the dog hears it very much and so do my kids. They tell me it's like having the high keening noise of 8 TVs on at once. I'm really disappointed and sort of in shock. I'm not sure what to do.
The return pump is a Posiden PS4 that moves a truck load of water and NO one can hear it - at all - at any distance including 2 inches. I'm toying with using several of them manifolded to replace The Beast. But those silent pumps are cooled only by the fluid they pump so they dump ALL their heat into the water. Having three of those would be like having 300 watts of heat on 24/7. I also don't know if they'd even come close to moving the water like the Sequence was.
What's goes on in the discharge tower. Five 3/4 nozzles are pointed at strategic ports in the hide. Note this is with the VFD turned down to 15Hz
The flow was really nice. You could see the surface water flowing towards the center from both sides. A small whirlpool formed in the left bottom corner as I could see the dust rotating in a 3 inch circle on the bottom.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Now for the really bad news...
The big pump is too loud. I thought I could run at about 30 Hz like a lot of folks seem to manage. But I really needed about 55 Hz. The pump makes noise at this speed. Heck it does at even 30 Hz too. It's not LOUD but it's still too much for my living-room. I tried to pin down the noise. Where exactly it was originating. I'm not sure if it's the motor or the pump. Earlier I ran just the motor with the VFD and it was quiet enough so I have to conclude it might be just the noise of the water racing thru the pump.
But worse.. I turned up the VFD carrier frequency until I can't hear it at all. Unfortunately the dog hears it very much and so do my kids. They tell me it's like having the high keening noise of 8 TVs on at once. I'm really disappointed and sort of in shock. I'm not sure what to do.
The return pump is a Posiden PS4 that moves a truck load of water and NO one can hear it - at all - at any distance including 2 inches. I'm toying with using several of them manifolded to replace The Beast. But those silent pumps are cooled only by the fluid they pump so they dump ALL their heat into the water. Having three of those would be like having 300 watts of heat on 24/7. I also don't know if they'd even come close to moving the water like the Sequence was.
Looks really good Keith. The noise from the pump sure is a disappointment but the look of the rest kind of makes up for it, sort of. Do you suppose that you could replace the pump itself to get something quieter? Maybe a higher volume pump, running slower, so that you still have the flow you are looking for, would be quieter. I don't know much about pumps but it kind of makes sense to me. It sure does look good so far though. I am sure with your knowledge and DIY skills you will get the situation taken care of.
kcress
New member
Thanks Adam. I'm considering my options. I wonder if a single phase motor would be quiet enough..
Or perhaps a valve controlled dump with a synchronized valve controlled drain.
I shall endeavor to persevere.
Yeah noahm, I need to work on the housing a bit.. LOL. It has actually been knocked into the empty tank while operating. Didn't phase it.
Or perhaps a valve controlled dump with a synchronized valve controlled drain.
I shall endeavor to persevere.
Yeah noahm, I need to work on the housing a bit.. LOL. It has actually been knocked into the empty tank while operating. Didn't phase it.
kcress
New member
Yes! Thanks a bunch again hebygb. Those babies helped a lot. I'll be using them more soon.
Noise. I'm toying with dismounting the pump and sitting it on a piece of foam to see if it makes a difference. I tend to believe that if a device makes a bunch of noise on its own, in the first place, then trying to 'muffle' it, is usually not going to work well.
Noise. I'm toying with dismounting the pump and sitting it on a piece of foam to see if it makes a difference. I tend to believe that if a device makes a bunch of noise on its own, in the first place, then trying to 'muffle' it, is usually not going to work well.
srusso
Active member
Put beads of silicone on your pump, let them dry and do each side after a day of drying.
Since this tank is on an exterior wall (IIRC) can you move the pump outside? Maybe build an insulated doghouse or use a little shed?
That sucks. Noise will drive you out of the hobby, or in my case drive me to cut various holes in my house
:hammer:
That sucks. Noise will drive you out of the hobby, or in my case drive me to cut various holes in my house
:hammer:
kcress
New member
Since this tank is on an exterior wall (IIRC) can you move the pump outside? Maybe build an insulated doghouse or use a little shed?
That sucks. Noise will drive you out of the hobby, or in my case drive me to cut various holes in my house
Outside is a problem because that's the front of the house.
The pump's been yanked. I've moved on to the NEW PLAN. I'm happy as it will be more exciting to watch and will avoid 100% of the power consumption my closed loop was going to suck.
I'll be installing 4 surge tanks that will run independently and random to each other. I have a pond pump and a 55g out in the driveway. For two weeks I've been running tests and zeroing in on the final configurations. I got all the parts on the 4th.
Last nite I built and tested one and it worked as desired. They'll be digitally terminated Carlsons. I'm designing the controller now.
Pins?
hmello@bermexin
New member
You have some skillz sir!!!!
Was that just a water test to see how everything was working? Got a real set up date yet?
Was that just a water test to see how everything was working? Got a real set up date yet?
kcress
New member
Thanks!
One of many water tests - much to the lawn's benefit.
I had a close call. I have been using one of the Simer 2300 sump pumps for 20 years.
I use it for all this testing and to de-water my tank. I had it in my 55 test tank out in the driveway. Sunday I went out to test another surge idea. There was a layer of smelly oil on the surface of the tank!!! ?? Turns out these pumps are packed full of dielectric oil that lubes the bearings and insulates the windings while conducting the heat to the metal case. Eventually the unrepairable seals fail. If that had happened in my porous ceramic tank it would've been a disaster.
I heaved it in the trash and purchased a similar model that is specifically for fish ponds and fountains. It has no oil and the only metal is stainless shaft.
Whew! Another bullet dodged.
A setup date? hahahahahaHA choke hic gasp. Real soon now...
OodleyBoodely
New member
Incredible build! I love the sculptural work in your background. This exemplifies the art in reefkeeping, lol! Very nice! Can't wait to see how this looks a year or two down the line when corals have spread nicely to give a more natural appearance. 
