Join me for a strange one...
- Thread starter kcress
- Start date
karimwassef
Active member
Kcress... I'm considering a simple linear actuator for my surge but in a different configuration.
There is a bulkhead at the bottom of my surge tank and I have a drain plug that matches it. The linear actuator sits on top of the resevoir and actuates up and down to plug or unplug the drain. It's a 2"/sec linear actuator from these guys
http://progressiveautomations.com/t....html?osCsid=d9177ffe4843e719659b1c483e441ec9
the actuator is connected with a PVC pipe to the plug and a pipe-in-pipe is used as a guide to the bottom.
This won't allow for a 100% watertight plug, but should be good enough for my purposes. Thoughts? Warnings?
There is a bulkhead at the bottom of my surge tank and I have a drain plug that matches it. The linear actuator sits on top of the resevoir and actuates up and down to plug or unplug the drain. It's a 2"/sec linear actuator from these guys
http://progressiveautomations.com/t....html?osCsid=d9177ffe4843e719659b1c483e441ec9
the actuator is connected with a PVC pipe to the plug and a pipe-in-pipe is used as a guide to the bottom.
This won't allow for a 100% watertight plug, but should be good enough for my purposes. Thoughts? Warnings?
karimwassef
Active member
Here is the actual actuator I'm considering
http://www.actuatorzone.com/actuato...2-33-2-inch-stroke-33-lbs-force-actuator.aspx
http://www.actuatorzone.com/images/pdf/High_Speed_Actuator_PA-15.pdf
<a href="http://s1062.beta.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/surge2-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
http://www.actuatorzone.com/actuato...2-33-2-inch-stroke-33-lbs-force-actuator.aspx
http://www.actuatorzone.com/images/pdf/High_Speed_Actuator_PA-15.pdf
<a href="http://s1062.beta.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/surge2-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
Last edited:
karimwassef
Active member
There are 3 versions and they are preset. The rate / current draw for each is a function of load. At 30lbs, the 2" stroke would take under 1 second and consume about 9A at 12V for that event. The same for the reverse with switched polarity.
In operation, I don't think I would need an adjustable speed.
My concerns were
Pressure (30lbs of force enough for a 13" water level over the bulkhead?)
Reliability (fatigue, wear from repetitive use of 3-5 up and down cycles a minute - continuously)
Housing options (salt spray, creep)
Misalignment over time
Better seal / plug options?
Seal / plug degradation over time (seal material?)
Power consumption and thermal wear.
Noise due to actuator
Noise due to resevoir water flow (vortex, bubbles) vs. actuated valve approach.
Potential use at larger pipe sizes (3"?) for larger surges
I've done my own back of the envelope calculations but there's nothing like real experience... I don't know what I don't know...
In operation, I don't think I would need an adjustable speed.
My concerns were
Pressure (30lbs of force enough for a 13" water level over the bulkhead?)
Reliability (fatigue, wear from repetitive use of 3-5 up and down cycles a minute - continuously)
Housing options (salt spray, creep)
Misalignment over time
Better seal / plug options?
Seal / plug degradation over time (seal material?)
Power consumption and thermal wear.
Noise due to actuator
Noise due to resevoir water flow (vortex, bubbles) vs. actuated valve approach.
Potential use at larger pipe sizes (3"?) for larger surges
I've done my own back of the envelope calculations but there's nothing like real experience... I don't know what I don't know...
Last edited:
karimwassef
Active member
Anyone with experience with linear actuators in general?
kcress
New member
Hi karim. Sorry for the delay. Overall I think that should work fine.
There are 3 versions and they are preset. The rate / current draw for each is a function of load. At 30lbs, the 2" stroke would take under 1 second and consume about 9A at 12V for that event. The same for the reverse with switched polarity.
You can run this with a 10AHr gel cell that floats on a charger.
In operation, I don't think I would need an adjustable speed.
Agreed, though you might want very specific openings achieved.
My concerns were
Pressure (30lbs of force enough for a 13" water level over the bulkhead?)
Do the math! 0.4pounds per square inch times the surface AREA of your chosen plug. Example: 2" valve would be
Area = pi x radius x radius
Area = 3.14 x 1 x 1
Area = 3.14sqin
Force would then be:
F = 0.4psi x 3.14sqin
F = 1.3lbs So 30lbs aught to do it...
Reliability (fatigue, wear from repetitive use of 3-5 up and down cycles a minute - continuously)
There is that..
Housing options (salt spray, creep)
Always a problem.
Misalignment over time
Definite possibility that's probably addressable if you make a conical cork for the plug.
Better seal / plug options?
Consider a rotary valve. Like the vent on a Weber barbecue lid.
Seal / plug degradation over time (seal material?)
All valve will have this problem. You need to consider replacement.
Power consumption and thermal wear.
Eh. It is what it is.
Noise due to actuator
Noise due to resevoir water flow (vortex, bubbles) vs. actuated valve approach.
In my opinion this is always the hardest. It's very subjective what's acceptable and what isn't and how does the sound fit the action. Moving fast is often a bigger noise issue.
Potential use at larger pipe sizes (3"?) for larger surges.
Reasonable contingency to consider.
I've done my own back of the envelope calculations but there's nothing like real experience... I don't know what I don't know...
My consul would be this. If you aren't into meticulous mechanical design and development then you shouldn't proceed with your outlined plan here. Instead you should work with standard products as they're a good bang for the buck and can be replaced when they wear out. T'wer me I'd use valves found on ebay. I can do meticulous mech design and after trying many MANY things on my build decided an ebay valve was the best bang for the buck and time. I'd also come out the side of your surge tank so the valve and actuator would be easy to inspect and work on. You can even get operators for standard valves. Get whatever size you can find that's bigger than you need, like a 3" then plumb it to 2". If you want it bigger just replace the cheap pipe with 3" or 2-1/2"
There are 3 versions and they are preset. The rate / current draw for each is a function of load. At 30lbs, the 2" stroke would take under 1 second and consume about 9A at 12V for that event. The same for the reverse with switched polarity.
You can run this with a 10AHr gel cell that floats on a charger.
In operation, I don't think I would need an adjustable speed.
Agreed, though you might want very specific openings achieved.
My concerns were
Pressure (30lbs of force enough for a 13" water level over the bulkhead?)
Do the math! 0.4pounds per square inch times the surface AREA of your chosen plug. Example: 2" valve would be
Area = pi x radius x radius
Area = 3.14 x 1 x 1
Area = 3.14sqin
Force would then be:
F = 0.4psi x 3.14sqin
F = 1.3lbs So 30lbs aught to do it...
Reliability (fatigue, wear from repetitive use of 3-5 up and down cycles a minute - continuously)
There is that..
Housing options (salt spray, creep)
Always a problem.
Misalignment over time
Definite possibility that's probably addressable if you make a conical cork for the plug.
Better seal / plug options?
Consider a rotary valve. Like the vent on a Weber barbecue lid.
Seal / plug degradation over time (seal material?)
All valve will have this problem. You need to consider replacement.
Power consumption and thermal wear.
Eh. It is what it is.
Noise due to actuator
Noise due to resevoir water flow (vortex, bubbles) vs. actuated valve approach.
In my opinion this is always the hardest. It's very subjective what's acceptable and what isn't and how does the sound fit the action. Moving fast is often a bigger noise issue.
Potential use at larger pipe sizes (3"?) for larger surges.
Reasonable contingency to consider.
I've done my own back of the envelope calculations but there's nothing like real experience... I don't know what I don't know...
My consul would be this. If you aren't into meticulous mechanical design and development then you shouldn't proceed with your outlined plan here. Instead you should work with standard products as they're a good bang for the buck and can be replaced when they wear out. T'wer me I'd use valves found on ebay. I can do meticulous mech design and after trying many MANY things on my build decided an ebay valve was the best bang for the buck and time. I'd also come out the side of your surge tank so the valve and actuator would be easy to inspect and work on. You can even get operators for standard valves. Get whatever size you can find that's bigger than you need, like a 3" then plumb it to 2". If you want it bigger just replace the cheap pipe with 3" or 2-1/2"
sail33
New member
What about those guys that repair windshields by filling with some kind of clear plastic ?Yes - somehow. Are you offering?? :love1:I wish there was someone around I could hire to do it.. :rolleye1:
In flipping it over and working on the bottom and standing it up and bringing it in it has received two deep scratches across the front. Like fingernail devouring canyons. So I will need to do more than "polish".
Also for inside the depth requires someone to get into the tank. You cannot reach in to do any inside work.
I don't want to do any polishing until the MMLR is installed, as I can see a single slip adding new scratches.
MarineGirl411
New member
It is time for some updated pics! I love your fat yellow tang. Nothing makes me more mad than to see people starving their fish! Good work. =)
Andre Rosario
New member
This thread is awesome!
Keep it going.
Thank you kcress.
Keep it going.
Thank you kcress.
AZBigJohn
Usually confused...
This thread is incredible, although I may need a place to sleep for a couple days as I am sure the wife is not entertained with my reading this thread non-stop for the last 5-6 hours...
But I am amazed! Your ingenuity is amazing. I feel like I need to turn in not only my Rube Goldberg card, but my man card as well!
But I am amazed! Your ingenuity is amazing. I feel like I need to turn in not only my Rube Goldberg card, but my man card as well!
Wow. I will probably make the chambers for my sump like this. That way it is modular and I can add them and change them with a lot less disuption to the tank. I've been stressing over shutting down my tank to section off my sump. Thanks for the idea!
karimwassef
Active member
For my version, I took all the input and implemented the dual actuator surges controlled by my Apex. There were some unexpected complications of having a leaky valve: In case of a power outage, the entire surge will eventually end up in the sump requiring a backup sump buffer to absorb the event.
