Journal of a CUT S. gigantea

[aandfsoccr04]

Following along on your progress

 

[OrionN]

Good lookng anemone. I hope he pull through for you.

 

[D-Nak]

Probably figure they can double their profits by trying to create two anemones. With that in mind, I wonder if this trend reflects overcollection in the area these particular gigs come from.

I talked to a friend of mine who is now an exporter and he said gigs are actually more common than haddoni. While it's possible that they may be over-collected from a small area, I think someone is just getting a little greedy. In some ways it doesn't make sense, since they lose the profit on one gig while they have to wait for the two cut halves to heal. This leads me to believe that there must be a high enough rate of success -- meaning the mortality rate is low -- for someone to think that this is a viable solution.

This is a great thread. I think the more we talk about this situation the more likely word will spread that it is an unacceptable practice and buyers will look for and avoid cut gigs. One other thing I noticed was that the cuts are not so fresh but appear to be in the beginning stages of healing. More importantly, this implies that there is a system in place to artificially propagate these animals. The only way to stop this would be to hit em' where it hurts...their wallets. We don't buy they and they won't get paid!

I wonder if your gig was dyed? In the past (short) three years I've been researching gigs I've never seen one with blue internals. I wonder if your LFS saw something that tipped them off?

What is your theory behind adding Iodine? I think it is a good idea and thought about doing the same but didn't want to interfere with the established Cipro regimen or risk being inconsistent with the water conditions in my DT prior to transitioning my gig.

I actually think my nem is in the final stages of healing. The only part left to heal is the disk. IME with a gig that got shreaded in an MP40, they can easily heal from damage to the disk. But to reiterate, the issue is that I don't think the gig's internal structure has healed correctly, which is why they don't live long, even if they physically look fine. Only time will tell. If it does die, I will probably conduct a necropsy to see what it looks like on the inside.

I don't think the gig was dyed. I've seen a lot of blue gigs, and gigs with blue feet. I've also seen a lot of dyed anemones. Dyed anemones typically have an overall even color, as if they are a sponge that soaked up the dye. This gig is only blue on the foot/column, underside of the disk, and internals. Also, dyed gigs don't appear to be bleaching, since the dye covers up the bleached spots. If it was dyed, then the dye had time to wear off since the gigs is clearly bleached in some spots. The would be contradictory to most dye processes, where the nems are dyed as close to sale as possible so they look "vibrant" to the customer.

Iodine is believed (anecdotal) to help anemones and soft corals. Others believe it helps ricordea keep their color. Some use Lugols as a coral dip. I am using is because I believe it has antiseptic properties. If the above reasons are also true, then I'm in the bonus.

Looks like your doing good with it so far
What lighting do you have on it

I am currently blasting it with a 250 watt 14k halide hung about 14" above the tank. The gig doesn't seem to be bothered by the amount of light. Since the light is just sitting in a reflector without a hood, it lights up the entire room, so I'm swapping it out for a Kessil A150 this afternoon. If the gig reacts negatively to the Kessil, I'll replace it with the halide.

Here's what the QT set-up currently looks like:



I don't have a screen between the heater, pump and the gig since I work from home and am constantly checking up on the gig. IMO, gigs that detach are in trouble anyway. I've actually never seen a gig completely detach and float like BTAs, so I was never concerned about the safety of the gig.

 

[sberman]

That is a nice setup. Im sure the light helps alot. Better then my t5 should help the healing

 

[D-Nak]

UPDATE: I was raising a small batch of BBS and it accidentally fell into the tank with the gig in it. We'll see if it eats any and poops again.

Here's what the gig currently looks like. This is without supplemental light, only the light coming in from the window. Mouth open again, but the overall color seems to be getting better.





In both photos you can see that the tentacles on the outer-most part of the disk are shorter. This is common with sick or acclimating gigs. I don't have a hypothesis yet as to why it looks this way. Any ideas?

 

[xtlosx]

I have seen that in both our purple and green... within the three months it has been here, our purple now has long tentacles at the edges, with full dark purple color. Same is happening with our green, the edges are shorter, but with the green not only are\were they shorter, they were more bulbous like a haddoni.. now that they are getting longer it's clearly not a haddoni. I'm wondering if this green is one of the hybrid unicorn gigs that Minh has... I can clearly see purple verracue now which I couldn't before, but the foot is not colored, it's just a tan'ish color.

As well, it seems like everything heals from the inside closest to the mouth (tentacle length) and then goes out to the edge of the pedal.. Watching this recovery very closely over the past three months has yielded some very good observations.

In both photos you can see that the tentacles on the outer-most part of the disk are shorter. This is common with sick or acclimating gigs. I don't have a hypothesis yet as to why it looks this way. Any ideas?

 

[D-Nak]

UPDATE: A couple of days ago I swapped out the 250 watt halide for a Kessil A150 LED:



The tentacles have lengthened quite a bit, even the outer edges. The overall size is now about 1/3 larger than when it was first acclimating, and it's taking on a more typical gig shape with folded edges of the disk. You can see that the disk is now hanging over the edge of the rock (taken this morning under natural light):



Under the LED:



Here's another photo of the scar. Notice that there aren't any verrucae in the area where the cut has healed? I thought it was interesting:



The mouth is still slightly open, but it's a lot tighter than it used to be. It's been on a full week of Cipro as well as elevated levels of iodine. I don't think it's sick since it hasn't shown any of the typical signs -- no deflation, no dead zoox, no varying of tentacle length throughout the day. The mucus-like substance that was appearing on the base is also gone. It actually seems like a typical acclimation cycle where the gig continues to show improvement every day.

I don't think further treatment will provide any additional benefits. I'm getting tired of doing daily water changes from the DT and am preparing for my first clutch of baby clowns, so I think this gig will go into the DT today. If I see any signs of stress, it'll go back into the QT tank, which I'll keep running.

Well, I guess that's it! Hopefully it just needs time to heal. Right now it looks like a gig that's been chewed up in a powerhead and is healing -- not circular, but getting there. My only concern is the mouth. If it doesn't heal correctly, it may be a permanent defect, though since it appears to be eating, hopefully it won't have a detrimental affect on it.

I'll post photos once it's acclimated in the DT. Fingers crossed.

 

[Shia]

Great thread,

 

[deangelr]

interesting

 

[OrionN]

Great documentation. We seek the truth. I hope he will survide and able to heal himself under your care.

 

[Psionicdragon]

you used any meds on him/her/it yet? you should give it to me D

 

[D-Nak]

Great documentation. We seek the truth. I hope he will survide and able to heal himself under your care.

I hope it makes it too. The mouth is very much a concern at this point. Only time will tell if it heals properly. Looks like it's the last part to heal.

you used any meds on him/her/it yet? you should give it to me D

I used Cipro and iodine (I know it's not an actual med, but I upped the dosage). I'll trade ya for a red haddoni.

 

[xtlosx]

I always thought my purple might have been cut, the pedal at 2 o'clock is maybe 1-1.5" without much tentacles, while the rest of the pedal is 8-10".. I never saw a cut, but the other interesting observation on mine is the mouth rim is yellow, but it's not yellow all of the way around, it breaks around 12 o'clock and tapers off into the pedal where it fades away.. not sure if that's normal or not..

Either way, good luck, your documentation is awesome, and especially the pictures of the underside of the pedal.. It's weird to see al of the blue color, the verracue, and where the cut line was they are not there. Verracue are produced at birth or at time of creation and that's it? Like adult human teeth? Very cool though.

 

[taylor t]

D-nak, I wish you the best in your efforts! I too have a cut gig. Here's a picture of mine. It has put on quite a bit of material around the mouth in the last couple weeks. The cut is at around 3-4 o'clock. Here's today:



I didn't have much hope for mine in the beginning, but it seems to be doing pretty well, so far.... Mine had the single tooth hanging out for a few weeks, mouth always seemed to be open a bit, not gaping, but just open a little. It still gapes once in a while, but the time is becoming shorter and shorter I find it that way. I'm now hopeful both of ours make it long term. When you stop the flow for a second, is it super wiggley, or just kind of? Just curious.


I think it was shutiny's thread I read she said she never had a cut one live longer than a couple years, if I remember correctly??? I wonder why??? Only one tooth? Or was it a system malfunction/crash (if I dare say that word)? Seems to me, if it lives a year, one would think it's good to go.

 

[sberman]

great job on this veryinteresting to follow along are you doing the cipro everyday with the 5 gallon water change and on the iodine 1 drop per gallon or 2

 

[stickleback]

Thanks for documenting this thread:rollface:.

To me what will be interesting in time (presuming the nem makes it), is whether it recovers fully and forms a second siphonoglyph, in which case would sort of prove they can reproduce or be reproduced asexually. Or whether it just gets by with the one siphonoglyph, staying half a nem (perhaps healthy) and proving that they don't. At least by the method of the knife anyway.

 

[D-Nak]

I didn't have much hope for mine in the beginning, but it seems to be doing pretty well, so far.... Mine had the single tooth hanging out for a few weeks, mouth always seemed to be open a bit, not gaping, but just open a little. It still gapes once in a while, but the time is becoming shorter and shorter I find it that way. I'm now hopeful both of ours make it long term. When you stop the flow for a second, is it super wiggley, or just kind of? Just curious.


I think it was shutiny's thread I read she said she never had a cut one live longer than a couple years, if I remember correctly??? I wonder why??? Only one tooth? Or was it a system malfunction/crash (if I dare say that word)? Seems to me, if it lives a year, one would think it's good to go.

Mine looks exactly as you descrie. It looks to be improving except that one siphonoglyph is sticking out. It's also in the wrong position -- instead of being at the 12 o'clock position of a normal gig, it's at the 3 o'clock position. Again, I think this is due to the fact that it has to wrap around itself to heal. I don't know what this means for its long term health.

I agree that once it makes it past a few months, let alone a year, one would think it would be fine for the long term. I'll ask Shu Tin about this.

great job on this veryinteresting to follow along are you doing the cipro everyday with the 5 gallon water change and on the iodine 1 drop per gallon or 2

Thanks. I used Cipro for a week, along with the 5 gallon water changes every day from the DT, with 4 drops total iodine (the difference being that I added it every day).

Thanks for documenting this thread:rollface:.

To me what will be interesting in time (presuming the nem makes it), is whether it recovers fully and forms a second siphonoglyph, in which case would sort of prove they can reproduce or be reproduced asexually. Or whether it just gets by with the one siphonoglyph, staying half a nem (perhaps healthy) and proving that they don't. At least by the method of the knife anyway.

This is exactly what I am wondering as well. It appears as if it's healing properly EXCEPT for the siphonoglyph. Since its function has to do with respiration, I definitely think it's the same as having one lung -- it may be able to survive, we just don't know for how long. I still firmly believe that these nems CANNOT reproduce asexually, therefore I also don't think the siphonoglyph will grow back. I also think the added stress of having only one may eventually take its toll on the nem, and other ailments may result. Only time will tell.

I just checked on it in the DT and it moved off of its rocks that it lived on while inthe QT tank. It ended up mowing down some of my zoas/palys so I may need to move it. I think I will try to move it near my other gig, which is about 3x the size of this one. I will make for an interesting photo.

 

[xtlosx]

Sorry to jump in here, but you're saying the siphonoglyph is supposed to be at the 12 o'clock position on a healthy and non-cut gig? So basically, regardless of where the gig it placed, it will right itself and should be at 12 o'clock? Now I need to do some looking when I'm doing my water change because my purples is not at the 12 o'clock I'm pretty sure....

Mine looks exactly as you descrie. It looks to be improving except that one siphonoglyph is sticking out. It's also in the wrong position -- instead of being at the 12 o'clock position of a normal gig, it's at the 3 o'clock position. Again, I think this is due to the fact that it has to wrap around itself to heal. I don't know what this means for its long term health.

I agree that once it makes it past a few months, let alone a year, one would think it would be fine for the long term. I'll ask Shu Tin about this.



Thanks. I used Cipro for a week, along with the 5 gallon water changes every day from the DT, with 4 drops total iodine (the difference being that I added it every day).



This is exactly what I am wondering as well. It appears as if it's healing properly EXCEPT for the siphonoglyph. Since its function has to do with respiration, I definitely think it's the same as having one lung -- it may be able to survive, we just don't know for how long. I still firmly believe that these nems CANNOT reproduce asexually, therefore I also don't think the siphonoglyph will grow back. I also think the added stress of having only one may eventually take its toll on the nem, and other ailments may result. Only time will tell.

I just checked on it in the DT and it moved off of its rocks that it lived on while inthe QT tank. It ended up mowing down some of my zoas/palys so I may need to move it. I think I will try to move it near my other gig, which is about 3x the size of this one. I will make for an interesting photo.

 

[D-Nak]

Sorry to jump in here, but you're saying the siphonoglyph is supposed to be at the 12 o'clock position on a healthy and non-cut gig? So basically, regardless of where the gig it placed, it will right itself and should be at 12 o'clock? Now I need to do some looking when I'm doing my water change because my purples is not at the 12 o'clock I'm pretty sure....

Sorry. I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm just referring to 12 o'clock as the top position, but on mine it's more on the side, at 3 o'clock. In other words, imagine the mouth of a gig as a human mouth, where it's split bilaterally. There should be two siphonoglyphs, one at each end where the top and bottom lips meet, but on mine, there's only one and it moved -- in this example -- to the top of the lip.

Gig don't right themselves, meaning that the siphonoglyph can be anywhere. Sorry if that got you concerned.

 

[Rotknee]

I wonder if the siphonoglyph would ever grow back under optimal conditions? Glad to see your gig is doing well Derrick. When are you going to put it in your DT? I would imagine it would be safe to do so without risk to your current gig since it has been treated. In addition, you could remove it at the first sign of danger if necessary.